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Environmental Issues Environment, Global Warming, Pollution, Natural Resources, Alternative Energy

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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2007
onon onon is offline
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Re: No link between the sun and current warming trends

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer View Post
Interesting how this flies directly in the face of measurements a few years ago that showed the sun's energy output has increased 0.05%/decade since the late 1970's.
That was a composite of various individual satellite records into one big record for the last 30 years. Each of the satellites has different problems and biases in it's measurements so it's not trivial to combine them. Other composites show no such increase. That composite got more media attention because it showed an increase (even though the increase isn't enough to explain all the recent warming anyway)

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There are also other science articles that show the sun at an 11,400 year high in some other category.
That one is a low resolution conclusion, basically saying the recent period, as in century on average, is at a sunspot high, not that it is higher right now than say 50 years ago. The late 20th century has seen a flat, slightly declining trend in sunspot numbers, which is what the OP article seems to be getting at.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2007
WildMan WildMan is offline
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Re: No link between the sun and current warming trends

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Originally Posted by Meridious View Post
Anyone recall "global cooling" also known as the "coming ice age" that propagandists tried to cause a panic with in the late 70s?

Talk about a scientific theory shift.

180 degrees.

/chuckle

Same fear-mongering, different temperature.
It is true that fear mongering sells well. Ice Ages, Aids, SARS, Terrorism, Communism, Y2K, Alien invasions ...........

But what the media and politicians say about a thing is very different to what science says. Global cooling theory was only ever advanced by a few well publicised scientists based on a very limited data set (recent cyclic cooling and untested theories). People made money and perhaps we were a little diverted from Vietnam but it didn't stick because there was more hype than science.

Global warming is another thing. The vast body of scientists and data gathered continues to support it no matter how much debate is entered into. The theoretical basis is well founded and consistent from quantum effects way up to the cosmic. All though scientists of different disciplines consistently contribute all their data in support of the theory.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2007
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: No link between the sun and current warming trends

But why confuse the issue? It's so much more fun to bury your head in the sand and keep your Suburban.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2007
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WarOnIgnorance WarOnIgnorance is offline
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Re: No link between the sun and current warming trends

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildMan View Post
But what the media and politicians say about a thing is very different to what science says. Global cooling theory was only ever advanced by a few well publicised scientists based on a very limited data set (recent cyclic cooling and untested theories). People made money and perhaps we were a little diverted from Vietnam but it didn't stick because there was more hype than science.
The two are not even mutually exclusive. Global cooling is the natural, long term trend, while global warming, which leads to climate change, is the abnormal, unnatural, short term trend. The global scale is a composition of many components, some of which are cooling, some of which are heating. When all natural trends, such as natural global cooling, plane elevation, distance from the Sun, fluctuations in its output, etc. are quantified and added, and there remains a statistically significant divergence is when we can talk about human induced global warming as an unnatural and new component. This is of course obviously the case despite all the crazy conspiracy theories claiming the opposite.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2007
WildMan WildMan is offline
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Re: No link between the sun and current warming trends

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Originally Posted by WarOnIgnorance View Post
The two are not even mutually exclusive. Global cooling is the natural, long term trend, while global warming, which leads to climate change, is the abnormal, unnatural, short term trend. The global scale is a composition of many components, some of which are cooling, some of which are heating. When all natural trends, such as natural global cooling, plane elevation, distance from the Sun, fluctuations in its output, etc. are quantified and added, and there remains a statistically significant divergence is when we can talk about human induced global warming as an unnatural and new component. This is of course obviously the case despite all the crazy conspiracy theories claiming the opposite.
Indeed. I should have more accurately talked of the "threat from cooling" rather than the "fact of cooling" being the thing of contention.
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