Global Warming cover up is nothing new - Our own oil friendly administration has attempted to rewrite the facts and hide the truth -

This administration has no interest in Scientific truth or truth. Wake up.

YouTube - Global Warming and George Bush

Scientific facts are Scientific facts - There is no special interest in favor of Global warming - Just those who want to keep raking it in and don't plan to be around for the fireworks.

The scientific community is in agreement about global warming - with the exception of those that have been offered huge sums to do anything to cover the truth.

read it all -

Global-Warming Deniers: A Well-Funded Machine - Newsweek Technology - MSNBC.com

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Well, at least it says that ExxonMobil, or the think tank, offered money to scientists for writing articles. That should add in a positive way to what is usually written on the subject.

Are you saying that scientists can't be bought like everyone else?

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

If I'm saying that in the same breath as saying "offered money"? Nah, I'd think not

Scientists can certainly be bought to say whatever for however long but if you can even manage to buy science to say whatever, it's never for very long.

So when are they going to issue the breathers so that when we exhale we do not let CO2 into the air.

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Listener of the Wilkow Majority
Patriot, Conservative, Libertarian

So you cant buy scientists to say something obviously false - they will be outed quickly.

But you can buy scientists to promote doubt about a complex natural system that is generally misunderstood by the public at large, until the money runs out.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

As i have said - we are part of a natural cycle. the natural process can handle upto 6.1 billion metric tons a year - on top of that we add more than half that much annually through burning fossil fuels.


Greenhouse Gases, Climate Change, and Energy

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It could easily be argued that those who are most vocal about the excessive degree to which human activity has contributed to global climate change are just as beholden to benefactors for thier continued livelihood as those who are scientifically opposed to the theory.

Personally, I can't concieve of how anyone would completly refute the notion of climate change and the fact that humanity contributes to it to some degree.

There's no denying that human use of carbon based fuels has contributed excessive ammounts of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere (excessive to the extent that we are releasing more CO2 than the Earth is capable of processing). The evidence found in ice cores and by dendochronologists clearly illustrates how rapidly, and to what degree, atmospheric CO2 has increased since the industrial revolution.

All you need to do is look up at Venus to see what happens when any planetary source produces more CO2 than a planet is capable of processing (although the Earth will likely never become what Venus is).

So is humanity culpable to some degree in the scientifically factual climate change our planet is experiencing?

Absolutely.

But what strong advocates of "global warming" leave out of their equations are all of the other natural processes that contribute to our planets natural climate evolution. The positions of the continents can affect climate, as can the variations in the orbit and rotational attitude of the Earth, volcanic activity, the currents of the oceans, the output of the sun, and perhaps even the sun's position in it's 200-million year orbit about the center of the galaxy. The Earth is going to warm and cool, and in both directions to degrees that are harmful to the continuation of life as we know it, regardless of whether or not we stop burning fossil fuels tomorrow

If humanity is doing anything in regards to the global climate it is simply ACCELERATING what is already a natural process.

But is that a bad thing?

I think we can all agree that a period of continental glaciation would be just as dangerous for continued life in the nothern hemisphere as the possible predicted consequences of continued warming (melting ice caps, rising sea levels, extinction of certain species, etc...)

There is some evidence that global warming will actually postpone or offset the next naturally expected period of massive glaobal cooling.

So are we better off with our costal areas submerged by global warming? Or are we better off with glaciers covering everything from the North Pole down to Virginia?

I don't really have a preference. It isn't going to effect me personally one way or the other.

I'm sure the argument of, "but what about the children, THE CHILDREN!!!!" can be made, but when you get right down to it, eventually the children are going to be incinerated when the Sun burns all of its hydrogen, undergoes gravitational collapse, expands to the point that it's about 50 million miles closer to the Earth, causes the Earth's atmosphere to dry out as water vapor is lost to space, and extinguishes most life (including humans) on the surface of our planet.

This is, of course assuming that we aren't faced with an extinction level cometary impact at some point over the next few million years.

We're doomed no matter how you look at it.

Id prefer to extend the amount of time me and my children and their children can enjoy a livable and healthy earth abundant in life and food. Not only do i want to extend this time for as long as possible, but i want to make the experience an increasingly more pleasant and manageable one.

Its almost as if you are suggesting that because there is a slight chance of an extinction event asteroid hitting us at some point, or because of the certainty of the death of our sun, we should be fine with rapidly ravaging the ecosystem and altering the rhythm of the planetary pulse so that a tiny minority of people can live like gluttonous kings at the top of the hierarchy and the rest of us can labor each day to make it possible for them!

Have you gone completely mad?

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

No, I haven't gone mad. I was actually being kind of silly by carrying a pretty reasonable notion to absolute excess.

But since I'm new around here, and nobody has really become familiar with my politics or opinions yet, I can easily see where you'd think I was seriously espousing a position that in reality I would find completly loudicrous.

I've posted on a few other message boards for quite some time and this is the first new community I've entered in years. I guess I forgot where I was made an asinine comment that those who know me better would know I wasn't serious about.

Sorry if I rattled your cage a little.

I agree with you that we need to make the best of what we have. I'm personally pretty friendly toward the environment and generally support policies that are friendly toward the environment while not being economic suicide at the same time.

So...do I agree that we need to take care of the planet whenever, wherever, and however we can?

Yes.

Do I think that our current economic practices are leading us down the path on imminent doom?

Not by a long shot.

And I truly do care about the children. I have one due in about two months and I'd like him to be able to wander around outdoors without having to don full MOPP gear.

In this administration, considering their efforts to debunk and hide federally funded scientific facts - I can.

What strong advocates ? Global warming data has been accumulated primarily through Federal Programs. And now this administration is attempting to conceal and hide the facts studied in those programs.

How old are you ? In the face of an administration that has attempted to hide science fact regarding global warming we are faced with such speculation based on scientific data - "90% likelihood that the release of greenhouse gases from the burning of fossil fuels is causing longer droughts, more flood causing down-pours and worse heat-waves, way up from earlier studies." The children can watch with us as we see the effects of Global Warming today!

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Andrewl, you can buy whomever to say whatever forever. It's far more difficult to sell whatever to whomever forever. Comical Ali springs to mind as one of the more absurd examples in recent times.

And yes, the seed of misunderstanding - but especially a will to believe (for whatever reason) - certainly tends to postpone the moment it turns around and bites you in the .. well, whereever

Welcome to the board.

I don't know what counts as imminent.... a year from now...5, 10, 100.

Don't you think our economic practices exploit till there is nothing left to exploit are leading us down a really bad path at some point? I for one already experience the 'doom' first hand.... I already live in a world where i cant let my kid swim in the lake i could drink out of as a kid. And im not being paranoid - the lawman shut the lake down to swimming a few weeks ago. This is as a direct result of the economic practices of corporations and government.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Thanks.

I think that even if we were to push that out to a few thousand years the Earth would still be a comfortably habitable place.

Absofuckinloutely.

I agree that some practices are just completly aweful for the environment and are only in use because of abject greed.

Strip mining, mountaintop removal, the dumping or runoff of toxic waste into drainage basins, irrisponsible diposal of nuclear fuel and dangerous chemicals, massive deforestation, the list goes on and on.

But I also think that many of the things that pollute our planet are also consequences of a natural progression of industry and technology that allow us to live longer, better, fuller lives.

It's a tough call for me whether I would prefer the shorter lifecycle on a cleaner planet that our ancestors "enjoyed", or the longer, fuller lifestyle of today, even considering the damage that I know automobiles, electric generation, petro-chemical manufacturing, and synthetic fertilizers/pesticides do to our planet. I like mobility and travel, air conditioning and refrigeration, plastics, medicines, and cheap, nutritious foods.

You hope - Current scientific opinion based on facts gives 90% probability that we are now seeing effects of our unnatural contribution of CO2 to greenhouse gases.

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