Based on data over a mere 150 years. We can draw no conclusions from this minuscule amount of information.

__________________

__________________

but there is a large deviation in CO2 output, and we know that CO2 can drive a temperature increase. Or are you saying that CO2 does not drive temperature - i.e. the 'greenhouse' effect does not really exist??

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Yes, I do acknowledge the existence of the Greenhouse effect.

To sum up my stance on the subject of "global warming", I don't believe there is any reason to worry about the world coming to an end until the temperatures actually start breaking from their cycle.

__________________

Isnt that like saying we should not worry about exposure to carcinogens until you actually have cancer? Even though it is clear that long term exposure will certainly give you cancer?

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

No, I don't really think it's like that. We've established that a relationship exists between exposure to carcinogens and cancer. We've never experienced global warming, so we're limited to speculation and theorization at this point.

__________________

We have established the same connection between CO2 and climate change. Its clearly recorded in ice cores, tree rings, paleo-biology, and paleo-geology.

Not only that but we are seeing the effects of warming right now. From the melting of ice at both poles, temperatures of the ocean surface and depth are increasing, satellite measurements indicate the troposphere is warming, poleward migration of species, permafrost is beginning to melt on arctic coastlines, etc... (the list is quite large actually). There is even anthropological evidence in inuit languages that indicate very recent and unprecedented warming (in the last 10K years).

That is all empirical data.

Then we have computer modeling which only gets better every year, and that also has shown some success in being able to predict and account for past climate change.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

I'm still unclear as to what warming you're referring to. Here's temps over the last 10,000 years.

__________________

Right now some actual figures and stats on that would be nice too you know Andrew, so come on, show us something to proove Global warming is more than a myth.

Again something to actually show trends of these apparent changes would help...

Totally absurd statement.

It is relevant, you can only make accurate assesments and analysis on data if you have all the data! How can you make an assesment based on a fractionate percentage of the overall constants and a slightly higher % on variables when the change you're hypothesising is a far greater % of the statistics you cite of a certain period (x) against a small percentage of all the overall variables (y of V).

I already discussed that graph. If you superimpose the CO2 output you see a significant jump.

There is the fact that temperature does not increase until a period after CO2 is built up in the atmosphere. This delay is well understood.

Then there is this graph:



This shows the temperature increase from the 70's till now. (with recent adjustments accounting for a NASA error outed a couple weeks ago).

incidentally, 1975 is when the correlation between solar variance and temperature ends. Variance goes down and the temp keeps going up. This can only be explained by CO2...

Perhaps your confusion is that you think temperature increase is an immediate reaction to an increase in CO2? That is simply not the case. There is a known delay.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

The stats are widely available on our physical impact on the planet. Feel free to search them for yourself. I wont spend that much effort trying to convince you of something you have already decided cant be believed.


So what are you saying exactly? That CO2 does not behave as a 'greenhouse' gas? That we are not adding CO2 to the atmosphere? That we don't understand the relationship between how much CO2 leads to how much of a temperature increase?

Im really not quite getting where this myth you speak of is? Can you provide more detail?

The evidence seems quite clear to me.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

And that delay takes 200 years? I was under the impression that the brunt of the CO2 was from the industrial revolution.

__________________

I believe the delay is ~40 years. Hence the upswing in temperature in the 70's from a huge industrial rampup in the 30s and 40s.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Thanks Andrew,

I was wondering if you had any thoughts on global dimming - the idea of particulates in the atmoshpere masking the effects of greenhouse gases resulting in a cooling affect?

Also, at the peak warming level - what causes cooling? Can cooling occur when CO2 is sustained at overabundant levels?

__________________

What would "breaking from the cycle" look like though? In terms of the global temperature trend.