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If this is true, then in my opinion, he has compromised his objectiveness and should be fired or resign as he will never again hold any water (i.e. be believable and trustworthy) on this subject to me and many others like me. He is a stain (again, if this is true) on NASA'S credibility.

Kramer

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“It's time to admit that public education operates like a planned economy, a bureaucratic system in which everybody's role is spelled out in advance and there are few incentives for innovation and productivity. It's no surprise that our school system doesn't improve; it more resembles the communist economy than our own market economy."
Albert Shanker, former president of the American Federation of Teachers

If any of these claims are true, there needs to be an investigation. As NASA is a federal agency affiliated with the Executive Branch, there are clear ethics guidelines that must be followed. Many agencies affiliated with the Executive Branch take ethics, especially with respect to scientific funding, quite seriously.

http://www.usoge.gov/pages/forms_pub...e/rfsoc_02.pdf

If the investigation reveals any impropriety, Hansen has effectively committed career suicide, both with the government and in science.

And, any future funding from or to OSI will be suspect and subject to more scrutiny.

IF, any of this is true.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

I just have to say this is really a non-starter. Mr. Hansen's political affiliations, and who he gets his money from, have no bearing on his scientific propositions. He should be judged soley upon the merit of his work, the conclusions he reaches, and the theories he espouses.

Not true. There are strict rules of ethics which restrict the nature of outside contributions to scientists working for the executive branch of the federal government. There will be an investigation.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

This is pure bulldemocrat. Hansen is supposed to be an objective scientist. By working with an extremist left wing political group, he has compromised his appearance of objectivity. He should resign or get fired.

Kramer

__________________
“It's time to admit that public education operates like a planned economy, a bureaucratic system in which everybody's role is spelled out in advance and there are few incentives for innovation and productivity. It's no surprise that our school system doesn't improve; it more resembles the communist economy than our own market economy."
Albert Shanker, former president of the American Federation of Teachers

And that is exactly the reason the ethics are in place and enforced. There is to be no politicization or influence in science, otherwise objectivity is compromised or lost. And "contibutions" can take many forms: Trips to scientific and/or industrial meetings, equipment, lunches, gifts, advertising, promotion, and pretty much anything paid for by an outside entity is highly limited and restricted.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Interesting, but not what I was referring to. If he broke some rules then he will have to suffer the consequences.

However, I was replying to the notion that "he has compromised his objectiveness" as posited by the OP. Mr. Hansen's objectiveness has nothing to do with whether or not his science is valid; it either is, or is not. Doesn't matter if he's a card carrying member of the Kill All the Capitalists Association, his science is the only germane issue when discussing whether or not he is "believable and trustworthy".

Ahh, then we should disbelieve his scientific opponents simply because they've worked with right wing political groups and have accepted money from oil companies?

The science matters, Kramer. The man does not.

Well if you believe the science but not the man, then you must believe the science from the scientists who were funded by the right.


"The man" appears to be compromised by a far leftist political group which means that both he and his work is questionable. This also makes people like me question if he had any preconceived motives and/or biases.

Sorry Cato but in my opinion, this was an incredibly stupid thing for Hansen to do. He is a government scientist and is supposed to be objective and getting help from a Soros funded far left political organization raises serious questions.

Kramer

__________________
“It's time to admit that public education operates like a planned economy, a bureaucratic system in which everybody's role is spelled out in advance and there are few incentives for innovation and productivity. It's no surprise that our school system doesn't improve; it more resembles the communist economy than our own market economy."
Albert Shanker, former president of the American Federation of Teachers

No, I believe the science. Scientists are biased.

You didn't answer my question.
No, it doesn't. His work is questionable because it's science and we should always question the science. Lazy and ignorant people try to find easy ways to dismiss that which they disagree with. Most commonly they try to find some way of killing the messenger so they don't have to deal with the message.
Of course he has preconceived motives and biases - he's human. Does that mean his findings are wrong? Does it mean his findings are right?
Probably was. But it doesn't make his science wrong. Launching ad hominem attacks from one side to the other only politicizes this issue even more.

It is irrelevant whether the science is good science or not. The perception of bias is present. His science will be viewed as dubious by many; thus it is not as good as it could be.

The ethics guidelines are in place for a reason.

For example, if a scientist at the National Institutes of Health is directing a multi-million doallar clinical study for a new drug to which Pfitzer has locked up intellectual property rights and the drug during these studies shows well. Later, it is found that the scientist has accepted favors valued at $750K from Pfitzer. Those studies would be regarded as biased by many, even if they weren't. The ethics rules disallow any outside favors in an effort to eliminate a perception of bias. Whether it is good science or not is irrelevant and no scientist wants his/her work to be regarded as biased.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Really? Then someone's affiliations determine observable and repeatable truth?
Everyone is biased, even scientists. His science may be viewed as dubious by many only because many are not willing to do the work necessary to test the validity of his claims. Those who wish to be told what to think will either agree or disagree. Those who wish to know the truth will think for themselves regardless of Mr. Hansen's biases.
I'm sure no one wants to be perceived as biased, but bias does not determine truth. Are you suggesting your hypothetical test results are now incorrect because the scientist accepted favors? I don't care about what people think, I care about what is verifiably true.

Whether Mr. Hansen's scientific work is true or not is entirely independent of his affiliations. Perception, belief, and personality have no place in science.

Was it intentional on your part to exclude one of the main points of my post when you quoted me because I sure didn't see any ellipses in your quote to indicate that the quote included additional content? This is the fourth time in less than that many days that this has happened.

Aside form that, care to comment on why we even have ethics guidelines?

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Yes, it was intentional. I addressed your point in my first reply to you.
I also mentioned, in that very same post, that I was not commenting on ethics at all. Why you continue to belabor the point is beyond me.

I'll put the ellipses in every time I reply to you, if you wish. Though I fail to see what you gain from their inclusion, or lose with their absence.
No, I don't. I thought I made that very clear in my first response to you.

Was it intentional on your part to ignore everything in my post? Care to comment on whether James Hansen is tainted by his connection with George Soros? After all, that is the topic of the thread.

Yes, he is. If the facts pan out, his credibility as a scientist is shot and he has little future as a government employee. If true, he has committed career suicide. It is the concept of being "beyond reproach" that is part of what makes a good scientist. Maybe he could get a job with you since you appear to have no problem with science that has the perception of bias.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition