I suppose if one wishes to be a victim of their own snipes, one could look at it as an adversarial situation. However, being the saint that some think I am (lol...not even dead yet...wonder how the Vatican would handle that), I find advocating the deliberate ramming of another vessel criminal and endangering the lives of sailors is, at the least, irresponsible and deadly and certainly an act of war (in international waters).

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Just a note, the Japanese are still going whaling. They are just not going to take any humpback whales. We may still see a ramming.

If I was Japan, I would send a warship with the fleet. If any vessel attempts a hostile move, such as ramming, send it to the bottom.

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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

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So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

They are terrorists, but not in the same sense as say Hamas or al Qaeda. They are more of a nuisence than an actual threat to life and limb. But they are only doing it because they are getting publicity. They are not really much of a threat, certainly not enough of a threat to warrant sinking their ships. That would only give them more publicity and encourage them, which is exactly what they want. Ignoring them would be a better option than attacking them.

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It would depend on several things. There are " Rules of the Road" even at sea.
You would have to know what heading each ship was on?, did one of them turn?. If so when did they turn and which direction did they turn. If the Japanese ship turned into the path of the Artic Sunrise then they are at fault, likewise if the Artic Sunrise turned into the path of the Japanese ship they are at fault. The video did not show which one turned or when.

And the first rule of the road at sea is, even if you have the right of way, you MUST do everything in your power to avoid a collision. Your right of way is forfeited and irrelevant if you have a clear opportunity to avoid the collision.

And, the logic behind this primary rule of the road is because collisions are inherently dangerous to the lives of those on the vessels.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

I completely agree, you should always try to avoid a collision. However a ship at sea can not just put on the brakes and may not even be able to turn very quickly. It would all depend on who turned and when they turned. Ship A may have turned toward ship B and ship B did not have time or room to turn or stop. It would also depend on weather they were single or double screw. Theres a whole lot of varibles to consider

Here's another variable to take into consideration with situations where Greenpeace is deliberately ramming another vessel: Vessels participation in fishing (irrelevant whether the hunt is mammalian or not) have the right of way over any vessel under power and any sailing vessel.

It looks like the Rainbow Warrior (or whatever Greenpeace vessel is doing the ramming) has no leg to stand on. 1. They are deliberately attempting to ram another vessel (that is not avoiding a collision, is it?) 2. They are ramming a fishing vessel.

Trying to apply the rules of the road to defend Greenpeace at sea is untenable.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

I'm not trying to defend either one. If a ship is actively fishing they are required to display a certain light configuration at night and certain flags during the day. As for the video, it appears the the Greenpeace vessle was at fault, however with out knowing all the information it's hard to say exactly who is to blame

As for right of way, a sailing always has the right of way, based on the fact that they have limited manuvering ablity.

OK. Yes, actively fishing is correct, but sailboats do not have the right of way over actively fishing vessels. They usually do over any power vessel, but not in this case.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Thorhammer;
Well in THAT case it seems practical to attack the Japanese fleet at anchor and so avert getting sunk later.

Wait a minute ! Weren't you complaining about Pearl Harbor earlier ? Lol.

When operating a vessel under sail, you must give way to:
Any vessel not under command
Any vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver
A vessel engaged in commercial fishing

Any blue water sailor knows that despite international maritime law all motorized vessels feel they own the oceans and will use the limited ability to maneuver rule to maintain course. Fishing vessels, fishing or not, are by far the worst offenders. A factory trawler, container ship or super-tanker that needs 5-miles to turn has far reaching radar that can easily 'see' a dingy at 50-miles but any sailing vessel captain knows they won't change course for a sailboat trimmed for a long reach, even when their navigation system can plot a collision course in a matter of seconds. All you'll hear is the horn (if the helmsman happens to be awake as they set the radar alert for large masses).

Yup. I hear five blasts and know that means, "Get the hell out of my way; I'm soooooo much bigger than you and that's all that matters to me".

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Anyone who purposely rams another vessel is a terrorist. What are they going to do next, run cattle trucks off the road?

That depends on many factors far more interesting than your over-simplification. One , for example, is the nature of the business of the rammed.