Alert Over The March of The ‘Grey Goo’ in Nanotechnology Frankenfoods

more like Frankenstein foods...

why can't we leave our foods and cosmetics alone....

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From toxic waste to the unpronounceables on your food labels, chemicals are all around and within us......

Yeah, I get all my scientific opinions from prince Charles.

But seriously; I'm not saying that nanoparticles are completely safe, or that they should be put in food, only that one should ba as careful and sceptical with information posted by alarmists as you would be with the same from an invested company. The article is just silly, on the face of it, from quoting Prince Charles on his opinions of their safety to blatant logical fallacy (some A are B, some B are C, therefore all A are C). And the writers understanding of the science seems flimsy; most antioxidants I can think of off hand are potentially pro-oxidants in high doses, and therfore beneficial in low doses, but bad in high doses.

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please click and help the eggs hatch!

"The only abnormality is the incapacity to love"
-Anias Nin

From the article: First, Buckminster Fullerines (C60) are structurally very different from thalidomide. Buckminster Fullerenes (bucky balls) are spherically symmetrical thus they have no chrality (handedness). Thalidomide has one stereogenic center which means it will have two chiral isomers (enantiomers in this case). When frist released, thalidomide was a racemate (meaning half the compound was one enantiomer and the othe half was the other enantiomer - each enantiomer having a different handedness.) Imagine this: You have both a right had and a left hand (think of these as drug receptors in your body). You also have a right glove and a left glove (think of these as the two enantiomers of a dose of thalidomide). Naturally the right glove/right enantiomer of thalidomide will fit (bind) with the right hand (drug receptor in your body). And this is a good thing leading to the desirable drug actions and therapy. On the other hand (no pun there ), when the left thalidomide enantiomer (glove) binds to the left drug receptors (left hands), nothing good happens and you experience bad side effects.

Unknown to all when that drug was released, all chemists and pharma realised that asymmetric synthesis of drugs need to be investigated so that these tragedies could not occur again. Organic chem advaced at quite a pace and the quality of drugs and their synthesis have advanced as well. Due to these advances, the good enantiomer is possible in pure form without any bad enantiomer contamination.

So, we compare a spherical bucky ball with no dipole moment with a dioxopiperidinyl isoindole dione (thalidomide). It is not symmetric at all (picture a hexagon attached to a pentagon then [i]via[i] a line that is connected to another hexagon. The two are very structurally different compounds.

Bucky balls are relatively inert except to oxidation and catalyzed oxidations (means bucky balls can be oxidized by oxidants or catalyzed oxidant with the oxidant being reduced and no longer danaging the body). They can be oxidant scavengers.

And, just a tidbit of trivia, you have thousand of bucky balls in your charcoal grill after a cokout or laying in your fireplace. So, they appear pretty safe since we are exposed to them often.

However, for systemic use, I would expect that the rigorous protocols put in place by the FDA (or the UK equivalent organization) and these will eliminate bucky balls during the several phases of clinical evaluation before on can use it systemically or topologocally if problems are identified. Let the science move forward, and most to all problems will be identified by the FDA.

I am not in the cosmetics side of the industry, but I believe that part of the FDA has just as many stringent protocols to pass before the public can use it.

Thanks for bringing it up. On its face, it seems like a dandy idea....but many tests remain and failure based on safety is quite possible.

Oh, and thalidomide is back as its pure enantiomer (right glove) so that only good therpeutic effects will occur.

Keep you eyes on it, it may pan out...then tell the rest of us here.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

For millions of years, and even in the last century, we didnt know what was in our food, and yet we ate it.

We now know more about our food than ever before, but the only thing it caused is that more people are worried about it.

Just dont eat GM food if you don't like it.

Here's an effective innoculation against GM food hysteria:

YouTube - Bullshit - Penn and Teller - Eat This 3/3

This is the last part of the Penn and Teller episode on food.

~ 6 minutes, and well worth the time.

(BTW, the whole episode is available on YouTube, and is worth the watch. The last third is most directly on point to the GM issue).

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Absolutely right Matt, if you want to be enviromentally conscious, and healthy, use your common sense and dont listen to the extremist groups because they'll only be satisfied when human civilization has left this planet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikvv Absolutely right Matt, if you want to be enviromentally conscious, and healthy, use your common sense and dont listen to the extremist groups because they'll only be satisfied when human civilization has left this planet.

Oh and I guess you think people in Monsanto and P&G care about your health and the wellbeing of this planet? Pul....eeze... They only care about a buck $$$$$!


if you do I have a bridge that I'm selling....

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From toxic waste to the unpronounceables on your food labels, chemicals are all around and within us......

Like I said, I don't trust them, either (especially not Monsanto; they have a terrible reputation as a science employer). But I do at least understand their motives; it's simple profit. Evil? yup. But understandable. I really don't understand the luddites who distort things in the opposite direction.

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please click and help the eggs hatch!

"The only abnormality is the incapacity to love"
-Anias Nin

Yeah, I'm sure Monsanto is on a mission to feed the world's hungry.

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Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands? Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush?

--Hunter S. Thompson

They've already made a lot of "bucks". Greedy bastiords!
Why stoop so low as to actually harm people just to make even more bucks.

I think the problem is that there's no competition anymore. The Big Guys buy out the mediium and smaller guys just to get rid of the competition. Isn't that suppose to be illegal?

Also Like CVS and Eckerds saying they like building their stores across from one another. They say it helps both their businesses. Where's the competition here? So we get products we don't ask for and have no choice as to being able to buy a different brand at a different drug store. All the stores have the exact same brands. I want a selection; I want a choice.

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From toxic waste to the unpronounceables on your food labels, chemicals are all around and within us......

TYPICAL of the quality of evidence that you post to support your opinion.

A Penn and TELLER skit.

PATHETIC.

Seriously, do you allow the establishment to tell you what to think on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE?

People like you are the reason this country is in trouble.

People like you are an enemy to everything good in this country. An enemy of the truth, an enemy of everything that made this country what it used to be, the greatest country in the world.

It is our duty to question the "establishment", but some people just love having others tell them what to think.

Excuse me while I go puke.

Good post. It's nice to see common sense is still alive in some people.

Since NAFTA, Over 30,000 American farmers have gone out of business. Mexico has lost possibly a million farming jobs. Of course our farm exports are up, especially to Mexico, where the people used to grow their own food, but can't compete against the mechanization of the American corporate farm.

A few tidbits for thsoe that are interested............

The Farm Crisis and Corporate Profits, a report from the Canadian National Farmers Union, names the dominant agribusiness corporations from one end of the agri-food chain to the other. It lists their profits and Return on Equity rates for 2004. The report finds that in that year, over 75% of those corporations posted record or near-record profits. In 2004, farmers posted near-record losses. The report goes on to examine the many mechanisms that agribusiness corporations use to capture more and more of the revenues and profits from the agri-food chain.

http://www.agribusinessaccountabilit...te-Profits.pdf

The report examines the finances of 75 companies in the supply chain of food production, including meat packing, farm equipment, veterinary drug manufacturing, fertilizer, fuel, food processing, and food services . It finds that 41 companies posted record profits in 2004, which was at the same time the second worst year on record for farmers. For 76 percent of the companies examined, 2004 was one of the three best years for profits .

The NFU says there is a direct connection between corporate profits and farmers' losses.

Qualman says that the main problem is the difference in market power between farmers and the small number of corporations that control distribution. Because "a handful of companies" are buying from 250 000 farmers, they can effectively set prices as low as farmers will go, but can also raise prices for consumers. Corporations like Kellogg, Cargill, PepsiCo (which owns Quaker Oats), and Tyson Foods were among those posting record profits while farmers were posting record losses.

"Holy Cow, Farmers Really Are Efficient" | The Dominion

Just that for now. I am sure many people here are concerned with GM foods and the problems with corporate control over our food supply, but there are others who are not concerned, as these people just don't give a crap about the future of this country.

Our food supply is too important to allow it to be controlled by greed.

Common sense to some people. Too bad common sense isn't all that common.

Typical nonsense, accompanied with the usual personal attacks.

Anyone who disagrees with you or your conspiracy fantasies is an "enemy to everything good in this country".

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Where do you live? I'm in a fairly small town, and I have plenty of choices (and honestly, if a store sells products you don't want, don't buy them). There are farmers markets in many places (we have one twice a week) where you can buy local produce straight from the farmers, though it's typically more expensive than similar food in the grocery store. I'm not sure how that fact fits with the 'price fixing by big buisness' hypothesis, I suspect that the smaller farms that sell at the market just aren't as efficient per unit as big ones. But I find it worth the extra money when I can manage it; fresher food is just better; having often been harvested that morning, or the day before, it keeps longer, and I like to keep my money local. And since you have internet, you can get whatever brand or product you like. In many places you can also participate in community supported agriculture; you buy a 'share' in a farm at the beginning of a season, and get weekly deliveries of produce as it's harvested. The one near here isn't more expensive (in fact, it's probably slightly cheaper than if you bought the same stuff at the grocery store every week), but you have to come up with the money all at once, in the early spring. There's plenty of competition; you just might have to look for some of it.

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please click and help the eggs hatch!

"The only abnormality is the incapacity to love"
-Anias Nin

Nonsense?

If you want nonsense, all you need to do is go back a year and a half and read your post from a thread on this topic.

THE NONSENSE YOU POSTED went like this............

GM food caused the WTC collapse! It all makes sense now!

Matt

Revealed: health fears over secret study into GM food - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum Archives

Of course, this is what you typically have to offer to a discussion.......

Crap.