pramjockey;
Oh, I don't know. Andrew specifically cites 'modern civilisation' and billions would agree that he has a point. Any sensible-yet-deprived third-worlder wants our 'civilisation' overthrown before we start harvesting them for spare parts.

Source?

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

dude don't......ssssshhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)

Why? I fully acknowledge my hypocrisy. Nobody has yet been able to tell me how my hypocrisy is at all meaningful to the facts of ecological destruction?

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

okay so in the end, you hate modernity....cars, assembly lines, pink floyds Animals is your favorite album, I get it…etc etc...but you drive a car...you don't use at least mass transit....because? Its appears that you have thrown up your hands and just go with it…..so, you'll drive while waiting on the apocalypse......sounds hypocritical to me Andrew...sorry...

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)

Im fond of Derrick Jensen, Daniel Quinn, Lewis Mumford, Stanley Diamond, Eduardo H. Galeano. They have collectively sold millions of books. I especially recommend Quinn's Ishmael, and Jensen's Culture of Make Believe.

Moon has a point as well. We are entirely blind to the reasons why many third world people distrust us. We have been exploiting their resources and enslaving them for decades, and they know this.

But i don't limit it only to modern civilization. Ancient and medieval civilization is just as bad, just as cruel, and is exactly what led directly to modern civilization. The difference with modern civilization is that is is global, and hence so is the damage.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

I dont hate those things for what they are, i hate them for the cost to humanity and the cost to the landbase that necessarily comes with them.

There are wonderful things created by many different civilized culture all over the planet, just as there are wonderful cultures that are not civilized.

It is hypocrital of me. I don't hide that. Ive been doing all the little things for decades, i recycle, i compost, i drive a fuel efficient honda, i garden, i walk and ride my bike when i can, i don't give gifts at christmas. i don't shop. Ive never set foot in a walmart and never will. Im trying to raise my child to recognize the damage that we do instead of foolishly celebrating it like Eric. People have been doing this for years and it has made no fucking difference at all. The only thing left is dismantling it or waiting for it to collapse.

Id rather dismantle it carefully and deliberately from the top down, but i will take the collapse if i have to.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

I didn’t get to read your post acknowledge said hyper-criticality before posting…..

so the sky is falling...etc.
pram has a point..I mean we get it….. you sound like one of those street corner doomsayers, you pass everyday…..and after a while its like, dude if the end is coming tell it to get here already….or like stuff a sock in it…

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)

I only ranted about civ when others began to gush lovingly about it. fools.

Fine though. Ill stick to the topic. This car is bad news, not only because of the environmental destruction it will add to but because there will be another billion poeple filling up at the pump. In case nobody has noticed we don't and most likely cannot produce more than what is currently in demand. The tension this will cause amongst the world powers will be very very dangerous.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Si modo;
Andrew, post #36.

Since you're so hateful of the human race in general, why don't you simply leave it?

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

I'm not hateful of the human race. Im hateful of civilization. Pre-civ and non-civ humans lived and live far more successfully, far more content, and far more realistically.

Hating humanity is a christian/islamic ideal. And christianity/islam are civilized religions.

Its my love of humans that makes me hate civilization.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

I think it's a pseudo-civilisation really. Evolution takes place away from the brutish gaze.

Of course these people want to have what we have, however they live in cities where transport using other means is quite common, and the cities have been built around that - unlike ours.

really, Mrs M - have you seen images of the teeming streets of South Asia lately? Cars will be evry attractive of course - both for status and for comfort - however in many cases they certainly want improve the efficiency of getting from A to B - even now a walker will get their before a driver in many cases.

This will only be worse.

What we SHOULD be doing at this point in time is improving mass transit systems, not encouraging people to buy more cars ....

although if something like the Nano was marketed to the US and Australia (with vastly improved safety features - which is another issue also - the introduction of the Nano will see road fatalities increase dramatically in India and elsewhere it is marketed) it would have a massive positive effect on the environment ...

So... we get to decide what those living in other countries get to have and we get to tell them how they may live now?

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum