Well, there's that!



I can very easily understand an isolationist perspective, but I also see the problems inherent in it.

I think we'd be a lot better off, though, if we stopped trying to dictate how the world's going to be.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Your first choice isn't working. You still have issues with society. May I suggest you consider the alternative?

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Still acting like a child eh eric? Can't discuss the topic with any intelligence so attack the person.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

I think it is safe to say we know what his opinion on global warming is. Can you tell me that you would not be concerned if you thought greenhouse gasses posed a reasonable threat?

Edmonton has a decent public transportation system. You seem to be so concerned about how people live there lives yet when options present themselves my impression is that you don't seem put effort into improving the world.

While I do drive a significant portion of my transportation is using public systems. The price is right, I help the environment, it doesn't take much longer and I get to read instead of driving. In the summer I also cycle. The exercise is great.

I think it is naive to think the opposite. Surely we have the ability to destroy the planet. We have already had an impact on smaller ecosystems and through the use of a nuclear bomb we would be able to create a nuclear winter. We have also have a significant increase in the numerical value of greenhouse gas emissions. Greenhouse gasses concentrations play a role in the ability for the earth to retain heat along with a number of other things. It is perfectly reasonable to believe that we can change destroy the planet.

If you were more concerned with your choices your advocacy would be more genuine. You would probably find a better way life that balanced comfort with environmental stewardship. If you find a way to live and show others that you can live a happy life maybe you would be more successful at convincing others to follow. If not then at the very least you would be the change that you want to see in the world, an idea that is admirable.

People have been doing that for 50 years - and every year the problem continues to escalate. It does not work.

I don't agree with notions of environmental stewardship. That is a religious notion that places man in a hierarchy at the top. The earth is not ours, it belongs to all the creatures, forests, rivers, and oceans equally - or it belongs to nobody or no-thing at all. The earth does not need a steward (and homo-domesticus is certainly not capable of such a thing anyway), the earth just needs to be able to exist unimpeded by human industrial civilization.

I do all the things that a supposedly caring person can do and still function in this economy. And it is still not enough. The choices then are to radically rethink the economy and our relationship to the planet, or say fuck-it and go about destroying whatever bio-diversity is left. The problem i have with the second option is that i want to feel good about this society and the people in it - but i cant as long as we continue down the path that we are on.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

No it doesn't. It is brutal compared to European cities, and most large American cities. It is brutal compared to even Calgary, Toronto or Vancouver. Edmonton was built for drivers.

I'm certainly open to suggestions on how i could go about that without getting arrested or directly harming other people.

One thing Edmonton does have is a wonderful trail system in the river valley for cyclists. That is one of my favorite activities - when the weather permits.

I'm still interested in how 1 billion additional people over the next 20 years getting into cars is at all a good thing. We simply do not have the resources to accommodate that. Not to mention the damage and waste that will come with it all. And the wars that will be fought over the remaining fuel supplies.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Having Lived in Mumbai for 6 months of my life, the last thing they need is more cars. There public transport system is one of the few things that work in that country.

On my way to work (traffic is so bad they gave me a driver) we would pass at least one traffic death a week. It might be that bad as sucide by car was common.

The polution was terrible. Walking in the street for 5 minutes would produce a grime on your clothes which was also going into your lungs. Most Indians will not be able to afford a cheap car but will have to breath those fumes. Those cars will have no emissions clean up system which we presume in our cars.

The cars there do spout some awful stuff...

Car is not the answer to India's problems in urban areas. Motorbikes or bikes without cars on the roads is there answer. Truck and Cars kill alot of people there the standard of driving is scary...

You just have to live there for a while... Slavery is practically legal, Corruption would make you sick, life has no value, racism is worse than South Africa (I lived there too). India has some very serious problems..

This thread certainly took an uninteresting turn rather quickly...

The environmentalist relayed a simple concept not a judgment of anyone's rights or morality.

This comment struck me as rather odd:
How much of "rural" India can afford this car even at such a price?
These cars will be purchased by the up and comers in the cities - the tech and business graduates. Where there was once scooters, there will be cars.
These cars are physically bigger and Daisym is right - you haven't seen a traffic jam until you've been in a traffic jam in Mumbai or Bangalore. Bigger, less maneuverable vehicles means worse traffic jams.
As good as the gas mileage is, it isn't as good as a scooter or motorcycle.
This will be a status symbol and the Indians will eat it up.

I'm happy to see India screaming into the global economy. Good for them.
I think they will regret this little car. Wish we would use them instead.

And I think Andrew has a valid point. The US was built for long distance travel - big cars. Little or no public transportation, wide rather than compact cities, etc...

My oldest daughter rear ended another vehicle not long after obtaining her drivers license. She drives a tiny Nissan and she hit a F-250 with a boat hitch. I would not allow her to drive this new car and would be nervous driving one in the US myself.

My husband, while driving in Bangalore traffic, ran into a cow while avoiding a street urchin. Both roam the streets freely. Imagine what will happen when the motorbikes are replaced with half ton cars. (He didn't hurt the cow and no one saw him do it or he'd probably have been lynched).

I tell these stories in support of Andrew. Our societies are quite different. While I would prefer the US straighten up and fly right, I also regret that both India and China, as emerging economies, are failing miserably on the environmental front.

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...the government...is caving in...with their specious arguments couched in the...language of civil rights law, and that the churches ... likewise crumbling to...rhetoric which is nothing but heretical sophistry -- ~F Phelps
Platitudes like the one you offer are no different - and no less incorrect - than the jackass part-time Christian who says, "I'm going to heaven because I'm nice to people." It so misses the point.~Impugn

I''m kinda surprised to hear that India has racism issues.

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Is our children learning? -George W. Bush

"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

Don't they still have the caste system? That always reminded me of how Blacks were segregated in the 50's.

Out of all the Indians I have gotten to know here in Delaware (we have quite a large Indian community), I would have to say that many of them are indeed racists. Not all, and this is obviously nothing more than my own experience, but a good number of those I know are.

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Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Technically, the cast system is no longer legal. But this says nothing about the existing reality. Cast system is still deeply ingrained.
In addition, there is a very strong religious/race prejudice between Indian/Hindus, Indian/Buddhists, and Indian/Persian/Muslims.

India slums are second only to the slums of Nairobi in size. Cowboy Ted is absolutely right. These cars are for those folks and can only do harm.

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...the government...is caving in...with their specious arguments couched in the...language of civil rights law, and that the churches ... likewise crumbling to...rhetoric which is nothing but heretical sophistry -- ~F Phelps
Platitudes like the one you offer are no different - and no less incorrect - than the jackass part-time Christian who says, "I'm going to heaven because I'm nice to people." It so misses the point.~Impugn

Don't be.

Look at this ad: when you're white you're succesfull.

YouTube - Fair & Lovely Ad - India

I must admit I think that's a better beaty ideal than sun tans.