Originally Posted by erikvv

Don't be.

Look at this ad: when you're white you're succesfull.

YouTube - Fair & Lovely Ad - India

I must admit I think that's a better beaty ideal than sun tans.

Originally Posted by JHC

How did you find that? That was an awesome example...makes me want to cry a little.

Originally Posted by JHC

This thread certainly took an uninteresting turn rather quickly...

The environmentalist relayed a simple concept not a judgment of anyone's rights or morality.

This comment struck me as rather odd:


How much of "rural" India can afford this car even at such a price?
These cars will be purchased by the up and comers in the cities - the tech and business graduates. Where there was once scooters, there will be cars.
These cars are physically bigger and Daisym is right - you haven't seen a traffic jam until you've been in a traffic jam in Mumbai or Bangalore. Bigger, less maneuverable vehicles means worse traffic jams.
As good as the gas mileage is, it isn't as good as a scooter or motorcycle.
This will be a status symbol and the Indians will eat it up.

I'm happy to see India screaming into the global economy. Good for them.
I think they will regret this little car. Wish we would use them instead.

And I think Andrew has a valid point. The US was built for long distance travel - big cars. Little or no public transportation, wide rather than compact cities, etc...

My oldest daughter rear ended another vehicle not long after obtaining her drivers license. She drives a tiny Nissan and she hit a F-250 with a boat hitch. I would not allow her to drive this new car and would be nervous driving one in the US myself.

My husband, while driving in Bangalore traffic, ran into a cow while avoiding a street urchin. Both roam the streets freely. Imagine what will happen when the motorbikes are replaced with half ton cars. (He didn't hurt the cow and no one saw him do it or he'd probably have been lynched).

I tell these stories in support of Andrew. Our societies are quite different. While I would prefer the US straighten up and fly right, I also regret that both India and China, as emerging economies, are failing miserably on the environmental front.

Originally Posted by solletica

The first thing that needs to happen in India is for the environmentally responsible people there to put up TV/Internet ads condemning the car, specifically pointing out that, in a country where there are so many traffic jams, 100% electric mopeds are not only cheaper (in terms of price and fuel costs) but better (since they can cut thru traffic and get to the destination faster during rush hour).

Educate the people, and let the market destroy this car once and for all.

Originally Posted by Andrewl

Bullshit. This car is a nightmare. It will put a few more billion poeple in cars. I don't care what mileage it will get. It will create a dependency that might not exist otherwise, and next thing you know these people will be behaving just like us.

Cars do not improve peoples lives. Cars destroy the ecosystem, and a destroyed ecosystem destroys the lives of people.

Andrew

Originally Posted by Arjun

Andrew, Practice before you preach. Give up your car and save the environment.

Originally Posted by Andrewl

I'm certainly open to suggestions on how i could go about that without getting arrested or directly harming other people.

Originally Posted by Arjun

For those who argue that Nano is an ecological disaster, let me point out certain things.

People in the Developed countries use cars, especially the bigger powerful ones. The developed world has enjoyed for a long time and still doing so. So why can't the developed world stop using cars and instead rely on public transport system and allow the one billion Indians to enjoy the luxury of having a car. Atleast a small car. As solletica, pointed out we must destroy the car culture using advertisement taxing but not of the third world but of the developed world which is causing immense problem to the environment each and every day.

Tata has said that the car is less polluting than a two wheeler. So it is better to have a Nano for a person since it has lesser emissions than a two wheeler and much better safety. Also it will reduce the number of two wheelers. It means less polluting than other cars. One Nano can eliminate 2 two wheelers since it can transport four people. Ain't it better. So why can't the whole world purchase Nano than other polluting cars and two wheelers and do environment a favour.

solletica , Who knows there will be an electric version of Nano as well. Already TATA is said to market Electric vehicles in the U.S market in collaboration with an U.S firm.

Originally Posted by CYDdharta

Well; you could turn off you computer, sell your car, quit your job, and set up a little self-sustaining neo-luddite commune. You keep hoping for the end of civilization anyway; just think about how far ahead of the curve you’d be. You could mold an entire community. Andrewville would be one of the first communities open for barter after the fall. You have the power Andrew; and the first step is turning off your computer…

Originally Posted by Andrewl

Do you have anything relevant to say about the consequences of a billion more people driving fossil fuel based cars? Do you think this is a good thing?

I would love nothing more than for my culture to relocalize food production. I would love nothing more than for my community to actually provide all the services i need to survive, including employment, without having to drive. The reality is i cannot survive without a car. Such is the world my culture has created.

I feel that the rest of the world is making a mistake by copying our economic model. It is fundamentally devoid of meaning and is entirely unsustainable from the roots up.

Why become mindless hyper-consumers like the west? Surely folks in the developing world can improve on (or replace) our model?

Andrew

Originally Posted by schaafur

The thing is: you're a billion people. When yet a billion people starts living an unsustainable lifestyle, this is not good. Yes, it's a "luxury," but so is smoking a cigarette --- yet, it kills you. These series of compromises, like "reduced emissions" and such, make us forget the whole of things: we are not living a sustainable lifestyle. There is also the cost of yet more production (the two-wheelers are already made), and harmful emissions from the production and post-consumer life of batteries, and so on.

But of course, there is nothing wrong in a sane, intelligent use of such modern technology.

Originally Posted by schaafur

It makes sense to turn off the computer, stop worrying about the abstract, and working in and with reality. However, it seems stupid to throw out the shell of the old society, when it might do us good: we might use modern technology for proper purposes, such as heating, or communication. The thing is that we need to look at the whole, and search for sane solutions, both for Man and Nature.

Besides, such Communes are rarely left alone by the rest of society. Someday lumbers will cut down your forest, or middle-class families will seek a way out of the neuroticism of modern urban areas, flocking to your grounds and exploiting what used to be "plenty for everyone."

Originally Posted by Arjun

A billion people. How many drive cars. How many Nano cars will be produced. Is the total car production in India higher than that of the U.S or is it some percentage (atleast 10%) of the car sold in developed nations. Like you have to survive and if cars and other transportation system is essential for you to survive it is similar for an Indian as well.