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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008
Jimbo Jimbo is offline
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Member Since: Feb 2008
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The coming water crisis...

If there's one thing that I've always hated it's seeing people waste water. If there is one natural resource other than air that life cannot exist without, it's clean pure water. There is a finite supply of fresh water on the planet & it's being sucked out of the ground at record rates with no thoughts of the future. The recent travails of the people in Georgia which prompted the Governor to hold a public prayer vigil for God to make it rain is a good example. Now Florida & Georgia are engaged in a legal contest over water & there is one brewing within the state of Florida as well. Water desalination plants might be a partial solution, but they are hugely expensive to build & operate, & how many of those will we have to build? I hear in Japan they're already using in-home devices that work like dehumidifiers to extract water out of the air & filter it. Those would help, but the capacity is limited & in dry climates would be of little or no use.

The following column is from the local paper here & I agree with 100%.

People will save water when it drains budgets -- OrlandoSentinel.com
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Old 03-05-2008
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kramer kramer is offline
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Re: The coming water crisis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
If there's one thing that I've always hated it's seeing people waste water. If there is one natural resource other than air that life cannot exist without, it's clean pure water. There is a finite supply of fresh water on the planet & it's being sucked out of the ground at record rates with no thoughts of the future. The recent travails of the people in Georgia which prompted the Governor to hold a public prayer vigil for God to make it rain is a good example. Now Florida & Georgia are engaged in a legal contest over water & there is one brewing within the state of Florida as well. Water desalination plants might be a partial solution, but they are hugely expensive to build & operate, & how many of those will we have to build? I hear in Japan they're already using in-home devices that work like dehumidifiers to extract water out of the air & filter it. Those would help, but the capacity is limited & in dry climates would be of little or no use.

The following column is from the local paper here & I agree with 100%.

People will save water when it drains budgets -- OrlandoSentinel.com
I thought most of the water we drink has been recycled? It's not like oil where once we burn it, it's gone forever.

Kramer
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Old 03-05-2008
Jimbo Jimbo is offline
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Re: The coming water crisis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer View Post
I thought most of the water we drink has been recycled? It's not like oil where once we burn it, it's gone forever.

Kramer
Nope. "Reclaimed water" is used for irrigation purposes only. A certain portion of that water may make it back into the underground water supply, but much of it is lost to either evaporation or just being soaked up by the soil. Only about 50% of the water used by humans returns to the environment fresh & usable for human consumption.

Some of the evaporated water returns in the form of precipitaion as part of the hydrological cycle, but a lot of what is evaporated just dissipates as the molecules break apart into their separate atoms never to become water molecules again.

Even though water is a renewable resource, it can very easily be withdrawn & spent at a faster rate than it can be replenished.
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Old 03-05-2008
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erikvv erikvv is offline
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Re: The coming water crisis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
Nope. "Reclaimed water" is used for irrigation purposes only. A certain portion of that water may make it back into the underground water supply, but much of it is lost to either evaporation or just being soaked up by the soil. Only about 50% of the water used by humans returns to the environment fresh & usable for human consumption.

Some of the evaporated water returns in the form of precipitaion as part of the hydrological cycle, but a lot of what is evaporated just dissipates as the molecules break apart into their separate atoms never to become water molecules again.

Even though water is a renewable resource, it can very easily be withdrawn & spent at a faster rate than it can be replenished.
Water molecules break into separate atoms when they evaporate? That seems really unlikely.
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Old 03-05-2008
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Si modo Si modo is offline
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Re: The coming water crisis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
Nope. "Reclaimed water" is used for irrigation purposes only. A certain portion of that water may make it back into the underground water supply, but much of it is lost to either evaporation or just being soaked up by the soil. Only about 50% of the water used by humans returns to the environment fresh & usable for human consumption.

Some of the evaporated water returns in the form of precipitaion as part of the hydrological cycle, but a lot of what is evaporated just dissipates as the molecules break apart into their separate atoms never to become water molecules again.

Even though water is a renewable resource, it can very easily be withdrawn & spent at a faster rate than it can be replenished.
Not "wrong" at all, at least in NJ (and I imagine many other states as well, but can't say for sure). All outlet feeds of water used in plants must be cleaner (not as clean, but cleaner) than the inlet feed. And, at least in the chemical industry, the inlet cooling water used in many of the processes can't be garbage to begin with because the maintenance if crappy water is used as the inlet feed is too high. The chemical industry is pretty picky about the quality of water they use in inlet feeds.

That's just one example. I do find your use of absolutes as humorous, though.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008
Jimbo Jimbo is offline
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Re: The coming water crisis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikvv View Post
Water molecules break into separate atoms when they evaporate? That seems really unlikely.
I may be wrong about that. I thought I read it somewhere, but I'll look further into it.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008
Jimbo Jimbo is offline
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Member Since: Feb 2008
Location: Central Florida
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Re: The coming water crisis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
Not "wrong" at all, at least in NJ (and I imagine many other states as well, but can't say for sure). All outlet feeds of water used in plants must be cleaner (not as clean, but cleaner) than the inlet feed. And, at least in the chemical industry, the inlet cooling water used in many of the processes can't be garbage to begin with because the maintenance if crappy water is used as the inlet feed is too high. The chemical industry is pretty picky about the quality of water they use in inlet feeds.

That's just one example. I do find your use of absolutes as humorous, though.
So are you saying that in NJ they let you drink & bathe in treated sewage?

Because they don't here in Florida. And that's what I was talking about. Water used & consumed by humans in their homes on a daily basis.

But then again, we are talking about New Jersey....
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Old 03-05-2008
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Si modo Si modo is offline
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Re: The coming water crisis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
So are you saying that in NJ they let you drink & bathe in treated sewage?...
In general, no. But they do let you drink clean water in NJ regardless of its past history.

Quote:
.... Because they don't here in Florida. And that's what I was talking about. Water used & consumed by humans in their homes on a daily basis.

But then again, we are talking about New Jersey....
Are you sure about that?
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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Last edited by Si modo; 03-05-2008 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 03-05-2008
Si modo's Avatar
Si modo Si modo is offline
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Re: The coming water crisis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
I may be wrong about that. I thought I read it somewhere, but I'll look further into it.
Yeah...you're wrong about that.
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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition
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Old 03-05-2008
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Prince of Space Prince of Space is offline
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Re: The coming water crisis...

We have been dealing with a drought for months here in Georgia. It has rained some lately, but a couple months ago things were sounding bad.
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Old 03-06-2008
daisym daisym is offline
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Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Australia
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Re: The coming water crisis...

the water crisis is global.

Living on a dry continent, we have seen changes in rainfall patterns - and despite recent flooding in many parts, other areas are severely affected by drought.

We usually do have droughts - there's nothing new in this - but patterns are shifting, and droughts appear to be worse. Our wheat production is very low this year - yet despite our rising dollar, those farmers who DO have wheat are having no problem selling.

Drought is right across Africa (and may even be a factor in the recent political strife in Kenya - the drought has been ongoing for at least two years from Mauritania across to the East coast), there is drought in parts of India, and in central Asia as well. In other areas grain production is also low.

At the same time as record droughts occurring, there is flooding in regions that are quite close by.

Together, these conditions don't just create situations where people have to worry about drinking treated recycled water (which is absolutely fine - if you get over the Yuk factor its as clean as treated water from any other source) they also are contributing to the global food crisis.

This is a major worry - and it seems is likely to continue.

As for the water situation here, most Australian capital cities (and many country centres) have water restrictions. Here we are lucky we are allowed to water gardens twice a week at allocated times - but in some places you can't water your garden at all - and washing your car borders on the criminal.

for years we have had dual flush systems, water saving shower heads, rebates for low water consumption appliances (eg washing machines) and there are a whole range of nifty little gadgets such as shower timers.

We have one desal plant, another being built.

But we had to have the government play big brother before people would think about water use. For US cities affected by drought, I suspect that would go against the grain, and only price hikes will cause people to review water usage.
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Old 03-06-2008
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erikvv erikvv is offline
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Location: Kingdom of the Netherlands
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Re: The coming water crisis...

It's always wet here. If I dig a 1 meter hole in the ground I hit water. The basement under the building has been pumped dry recently, it was reaching knee level. Water crisis indeed.
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Old 03-06-2008
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crisis crisis is offline
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Re: The coming water crisis...

I don’t water is going anywhere. As far as breaking up I am no chemist but I strongly suspect that is in correct. Whatever water we use we pass out and it re-enters the environment somewhere. The problem is more the weather patterns and where it gets redistributed.
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Old 03-07-2008
Cato Cato is offline
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Re: The coming water crisis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisym View Post
the water crisis is global.
It is?

Based upon your post, I guess I just don't understand what the crisis is. Is it the "recent flooding in many parts," or is it the fact there are "other areas... severely affected by drought"? Is it the "record droughts", or the "flooding"?

Or is the "crisis" simply the natural ebb and flow of the earth's climate patterns just isn't favoring Australia. Did it ever?
Quote:
the global food crisis.
There's a global food crisis, too? Does this crisis manifest itself as excessive food in some parts of the world and no food in others? How is this "crisis" different from the entirety of all human civilization?
Quote:
As for the water situation here, most Australian capital cities (and many country centres) have water restrictions. Here we are lucky we are allowed to water gardens twice a week at allocated times - but in some places you can't water your garden at all - and washing your car borders on the criminal.

for years we have had dual flush systems, water saving shower heads, rebates for low water consumption appliances (eg washing machines) and there are a whole range of nifty little gadgets such as shower timers.
Has there ever been a time when Australia didn't have to worry about water?
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2008
daisym daisym is offline
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Re: The coming water crisis...

Cato - I understand that you don't know much about the land, but anyone who does very quickly realizes that drought impedes food production, as most food crops need water, and floods ALSO impede food production because they either wash away/damage crops, or wash away top soil - which doesn't help food production.

I don't know if you read the news Cato - or if you perhaps have a short memory - but the last year has seen massive flooding around the globe - not just in Australia. Much of this flooding occurred in areas which produce food.

BTW - Africa is not in Australia.

But speaking of Australia, here are average rainfall stats for most capital cities in Oz. For comparison, I've also added figures for London and Par - and below that is a link to a US educational site that shows average rainfall in 100 Us cities.

all figures are mm per annum

Adelaide 520 mm

Canberra 629 mm

Melbourne 650 mm

Perth: 790 mm

Sydney 1175 mm

Brisbane 1200 mm

London - 752 mm

Paris 642 mm

(note - only Adelaide and Canberra have a lower rainfall than Paris, and even Perth has a higher rainfall than London - although the ave rainfall now is less than it was ten years ago - the average has decreased over that time.)

This site shows rainfall in 100 US cities. be aware that 300mms is 12 inches so that you can compare: April Showers

As my previous post was referring to cities, these figures are relevant. However data shows that in some rural areas have had significant drops in rainfall. As you know Cato - I have discussed this over the years, and provided examples previously. These links may be useful for you to refer to.

Australian rainfall – a view of the future (Media Release)

‘Human hand’ in south-west WA rainfall reduction (Media Release)

this experiment is aimed at children, however it may be interesting for you.

Kitchen El Niño (Activity)
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