Well now thats a bit unfair Imperator. I know personally the consequences of the environmental destruction of trying to exploit this category of oil. It is horrendous. The people who would try extract this oil at all costs regardless of the ecological impact are the 'crazy' ones.

Besides, this is not normal conventional oil. It would take decades to get any significant production out of this region. And due to the cost of extraction, it can't have any real impact on oil prices since oil prices would have to stay high in order for it to be worth exploiting this oil in the fist place.

Andrew

__________________
“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

could you provide a link stating this. I would like to find out exactly the grade of oil in question.

__________________
"Chaplain Charlie will tell you about how the free world will conquer Communism with the aid of God and a few marines! God has a hard-on for marines because we kill everything we see! He plays His games, we play ours! To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls! God was here before the Marine Corps! So you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the Corps! Do you ladies understand?"

All true, but Americans need some hope in our addiction dilemma and there's nothing like a little fantasy to keep them picking them up and putting them down.

Ahh, the grade of the oil is not in question. By conventional vs non-conventional im referring only to the means of production.

There is not alot of easy to get conventional vertical drilling oil available in this reserve.

Here is a very detailed article on the bakken and what it means in the 'big picture' of oil.

The Oil Drum | The Bakken Formation: How Much Will It Help?

Here are the conclusions of the article:

Conclusions

1. The Bakken shale has produced about 111 million barrels of oil during the last 50+ years in Montana and North Dakota.

2. Total Bakken production is still rising, and producing at the rate of 75,000 BOPD in October 2007.

3. Because of the highly variable nature of shale reservoirs, the characteristics of the historical Bakken production, and the fact that per-well rates seem to have peaked, it seems unlikely that total Bakken production will exceed 2x to 3x current rate of 75,000 BOPD.

4. The latest boom in Bakken production is driven by the application of horizontal wells and hydraulic fracturing technology, which has added about 70 million barrels of production in 7 years. Ultimate recovery of the already-drilled wells should be at least double this volume.

5. The USGS estimates the mean volume of technically recoverable hydrocarbons to be 3,649 million barrels of oil. This is roughly 7 to 12 times the size of already known resources.

6. Based on current production and areas likely to be drilled, the USGS estimate of technically recovery resources seems optimistic.

7. The Bakken potential resource, while large by US onshore field standards, will have only a minor effect on US production or imports. Using 2006 US imports and consumption for comparison, the Bakken undiscovered resource of 3,649 million barrels of oil, if subsequently discovered and fully developed, would provide us with the equivalent of six months of oil consumption or 10 months of imports, spread over 20 or more years. In reality, the reserves developed are likely to be many times smaller than this value.

8. The October 2007 production rate of 75,000 BOPD amounts only 0.4% of US oil consumption, or 0.6% of imports.

9. Per-well Bakken production peaked in August 2005 at 116 barrels a day, and was down to 79 barrels a day in October 2007. If the Bakken production history in the 1990s can be used as a guide, the peaking of per-well production may portend a peak in total Bakken production.

Andrew

__________________
“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

I posted that the other day, and was chastised because it is supposedly much less than that by volume, or is a hoax, or it is financially unfeasable to get to it.

And after reading the thread, it is true to form.

I am not denying that it was not cost efficiant do to low oil prices. I was trying to say that it is a little bit of both.(avances in technology and the high prices in oil.) Sorry if I came off that way.

I'm sure there are people more intellegent than I am who understand how peek oil is determined but I just cant wrap my brain housing group around the concept. How exactly do they know how much oil (in total) there is on earth? Especialy when new fields are being discovered all the time?



I never claimed it was a solution, But it couldn't hurt to have more of a resource that we thought we had.
If it was that easy why haven't we done that already? I'm not dissagreing with you I just think we need more time to develope the technology to creat a cheaper fuel. (Look at ethinal for example it is a extreamly costly fuel to create as well as inefficiant.) And if this new oil find is a key to help give us the time we meen to do it then we should take advantage of it.

Like what? I have never heard of any sagnificant incident in US naval history reguarding nuke power and the enviroment.

I just don't see any other alternatives to oil and coal power plants. I am not denying to prospect of renewable energy. Its just those forms of power has yet to be perfected to a point that would make them feasible. When they do become a reliable form of energy then there should be a transition away from nukes to incorporate the new technology.

__________________
"Chaplain Charlie will tell you about how the free world will conquer Communism with the aid of God and a few marines! God has a hard-on for marines because we kill everything we see! He plays His games, we play ours! To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls! God was here before the Marine Corps! So you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the Corps! Do you ladies understand?"

Well, in fact we are far more efficient in the use of energy than we were in the 70s: about twice as efficient.

And as for oil being plentiful and cheap - that was stated precisely the same way, word for word, in the 70s and early 80s. Then prices imploded in the mid 80s and we had another 15 years of cheap and plentiful oil.

As for exploring alternative energy sources - we are in rare agreement on that one.

Well when ever the price of oil skyrockets (happening alot lately) the internet and blogosphere explode with all the claims of new massive reserves, etc...

The thing is all these supposed new finds are not new finds and they have been analyzed ad nauseum by the 'experts' over and over.

Part of the price of oil right now is a result of speculation and fear, so people try to bring down the price by re-announcing huge finds... that is what happened with brazil last week and it is now happening with oil shale.

But it never works because the major factor causing the current price is good ole supply and demand.

Andrew

__________________
“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

Sorry I wouldn't have made another thread if I knew you already covered this topic. My bad

__________________
"Chaplain Charlie will tell you about how the free world will conquer Communism with the aid of God and a few marines! God has a hard-on for marines because we kill everything we see! He plays His games, we play ours! To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls! God was here before the Marine Corps! So you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the Corps! Do you ladies understand?"

Notice how consumption and our ecological footprint has likewise increased along with gains in efficiency over the same time period. Efficiency is unfortunately a paradox when it comes to energy. It only ends up encouraging us to consume more.

Andrew

__________________
“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

Yes unfortunatly they can't see beyond their issue as this find is a good thing.

__________________
"Chaplain Charlie will tell you about how the free world will conquer Communism with the aid of God and a few marines! God has a hard-on for marines because we kill everything we see! He plays His games, we play ours! To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls! God was here before the Marine Corps! So you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the Corps! Do you ladies understand?"

this particular find has nothing to do with oil shale.

__________________
"Chaplain Charlie will tell you about how the free world will conquer Communism with the aid of God and a few marines! God has a hard-on for marines because we kill everything we see! He plays His games, we play ours! To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls! God was here before the Marine Corps! So you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the Corps! Do you ladies understand?"

Depends on when in the 70s you mean. If you mean 1971, while I reserve the right to nitpick that "twice" business, there have certainly been major improvements. If you mean 1979, I don't think so. The 1970s featured the OPEC oil embargo, a kind of artificially-imposed preview of the oil peak long before we actually reached it. One of the responses to the oil shortages of the time was to improve efficiency, while another was to develop new oil fields. Basically, we made big strides in improving efficiency until those new fields' production solved the problem, and then we stopped bothering.

Yes, well, nobody in the industry at that time believed we had reached, or were near, the oil peak. What happened is that a consortium of oil producers imposed an embargo for political reasons. This created shortages that were like the oil peak, but only for as long as the embargo remained effective. The development of reserves outside OPEC's control, especially Britain's North Sea oil, broke the cartel's ability to stick it to us, and then, yes, we had another 15 years of cheap and plentiful oil. But the shortages were politically-caused, not geologically-caused. Today's situation is different.

Good-o.

Yes, many decades ago when it was discovered it was a good find.

Andrew

__________________
“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen