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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

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Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
If cheap power is your only concern, then nuclear is a good way to go. Of course you still have those pesky spent fuel rods to dispose of. I guess we can keep making more DU ammunition to shoot at more and more enemies so we can spread our radioactive waste around the world.
We could put the waste in sensitive ecological areas to keep humans out.

Andrew
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

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Originally Posted by Andrewl View Post
We could put the waste in sensitive ecological areas to keep humans out.

Andrew
Washington DC is another prime candidate for a nuclear waste storage area.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

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Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
If cheap power is your only concern, then nuclear is a good way to go. Of course you still have those pesky spent fuel rods to dispose of.
see post #71
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
TSGracchus TSGracchus is offline
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

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Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
We prefer it because its efficient and proven. Much like oil!
But it isn't efficient, that's the problem! It's grossly inefficient, because of the high capital costs necessary to build a plant, the fact that it takes years and years of lead time to add power to the grid, and the problems of waste disposal and decommissioning plants that have become too radioactive to use.

Plus, as Andrew pointed out, fissionable material is a nonrenewable resource, too, so in the end we will run into one of the same problems with nuclear power that we do with oil.

And finally, it is necessarily a highly centralized source of power requiring control by big utility companies, where renewable energy tends to be more decentralized and places control with small companies and individuals.

All in all, the only good things you can say about nuclear power are that it is a source of energy, however dubious, and that it doesn't contribute to global warming. As I said already, the second point makes it preferable to a coal plant. But it should really be our last resort, not our first choice.
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

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Originally Posted by TSGracchus View Post
All in all, the only good things you can say about nuclear power are that it is a source of energy, however dubious, and that it doesn't contribute to global warming. As I said already, the second point makes it preferable to a coal plant. But it should really be our last resort, not our first choice.
That is even debatable. In alberta they currently use natural gas to power the oil sands production. There is plenty of talk of going nuclear to power this industry. It could be argued that as long as we use nuclear to produce oil and run a consumer economy, it is in the end still contributing to global warming.

Andrew
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Last edited by Andrewl; 05-05-2008 at 09:29 AM.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
Norrin Radd Norrin Radd is offline
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

Quote:
Originally Posted by usmc7011 View Post
see post #71
SO THEY CAN FILTER OUT AND RECYCLE MUCH OF THE RADIOACTIVE WASTE IN SPENT FUEL RODS?

I did not know that. I admit I have not done a lot of reading on nuclear energy, as I am much more interested in renewable energy and alternative energy.

I did a quick search and found this piece, very interesting.

The Missing Piece - ORNL Review Vol. 41, No. 1, 2008

The above piece states ........

Several studies have demonstrated that most of the spent fuel components can be recovered and recycled. Uranium represents about two-thirds of the U.S. spent fuel inventory, including residual fissile uranium-235 that can be recycled directly as fuel for heavy-water reactors or enriched again for use as fuel in lightwater reactors. The next largest component—roughly one-quarter of the total volume—is the zircaloy cladding. ORNL is working with an industrial consortium to explore recovery of zirconium from the cladding for reuse.

So, studies have demonstrated that........

This is great news, but it doesn't appear to be a done deal. ORNL is "working on" the recovery of zirconium. "Working on" is code for not there yet.

Still, do we really need more nuclear energy?

There are still dangers from nuclear reactors, no matter how small the odds of a major catastrophe, I for one, have no wish to live near a nuclear reactor.

While I am not totally against nuclear power, I just don't understand why so many people seem uninterested in investing in alternative energy. Wind turbines have made great strides in performance and with the heavy investment in Europe towards wind and solar, why do we lag so far behind?

It's like people have been told for so long that alternative energy is not economically feasible that they will not even CONSIDER it as a possibility.

Alternative energy is economically feasible and has many advantages. Nuclear power will only allow the monopoly over our energy production to continue. I would rather see more investment into newer technologies which would allow more smaller players to break into the industry.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

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Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
Excuse me?

I have done more reading on hemp than probably anyone at this forum. I have also probably done more reading on biomass and biodiesel than anyone on this forum.

As to hemp biomass for energy, here is a great place to start, a strong economic paper by Tim Castleman....
No doubt you are an expert on hemp, but I doubt you are any more informed than the rest of us on basic energy information.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

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Originally Posted by TSGracchus View Post
But it isn't efficient, that's the problem! It's grossly inefficient, because of the high capital costs necessary to build a plant, the fact that it takes years and years of lead time to add power to the grid, and the problems of waste disposal and decommissioning plants that have become too radioactive to use.

Plus, as Andrew pointed out, fissionable material is a nonrenewable resource, too, so in the end we will run into one of the same problems with nuclear power that we do with oil.

And finally, it is necessarily a highly centralized source of power requiring control by big utility companies, where renewable energy tends to be more decentralized and places control with small companies and individuals.

All in all, the only good things you can say about nuclear power are that it is a source of energy, however dubious, and that it doesn't contribute to global warming. As I said already, the second point makes it preferable to a coal plant. But it should really be our last resort, not our first choice.
Check with France on that. They get a lot of their power from nuclear and its the cheapest power in Europe. Waste disposal simply isnt a problem right now. You lock in a cave and leave it for 10,000 years until we come up with a better way. Heck, you can even buy a personal nuclear reactor now.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

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Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
Heck, you can even buy a personal nuclear reactor now.
Really? You got a link for that?

Andrew
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

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Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
Check with France on that. They get a lot of their power from nuclear and its the cheapest power in Europe. Waste disposal simply isnt a problem right now. You lock in a cave and leave it for 10,000 years until we come up with a better way. Heck, you can even buy a personal nuclear reactor now.


Never mind little things like groundwater.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
Still, do we really need more nuclear energy?
Yes we do. that is untill a better form of producing power is found.

Quote:
There are still dangers from nuclear reactors, no matter how small the odds of a major catastrophe, I for one, have no wish to live near a nuclear reactor.
There is a danger that you PC monitor blows up in your face, but is that any reason to stay away from computers. As I said previously, the US navy Has been doing it for many decades now without a single notable incident.

Quote:
While I am not totally against nuclear power
I don't think the rest of us is against alternative power, but nukes are the best replacement for oil and coal we have right now.

Quote:
I just don't understand why so many people seem uninterested in investing in alternative energy. Wind turbines have made great strides in performance and with the heavy investment in Europe towards wind and solar, why do we lag so far behind?
You may want to ask the Kennedy's that

Quote:
It's like people have been told for so long that alternative energy is not economically feasible that they will not even CONSIDER it as a possibility.
Becouse right now it's true,alternative energy is not feasable.

Quote:
Alternative energy is economically feasible and has many advantages.
I'm sure it has its advantages but it still is not economicly feasable

Quote:
Nuclear power will only allow the monopoly over our energy production to continue. I would rather see more investment into newer technologies which would allow more smaller players to break into the industry.
What makes you think alternative energy would be any different?
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
Norrin Radd Norrin Radd is offline
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

Quote:
Originally Posted by usmc7011 View Post
Yes we do. that is untill a better form of producing power is found.


There is a danger that you PC monitor blows up in your face, but is that any reason to stay away from computers. As I said previously, the US navy Has been doing it for many decades now without a single notable incident.


I don't think the rest of us is against alternative power, but nukes are the best replacement for oil and coal we have right now.


You may want to ask the Kennedy's that


Becouse right now it's true,alternative energy is not feasable.


I'm sure it has its advantages but it still is not economicly feasable


What makes you think alternative energy would be any different?
So, Europe is spending billions of dollars on energy that is not economically feasible?

While I know that solar is not as economical as nuclear, some things are worth paying a little extra for.

Now, don't get me wrong, I believe it was dumb to shut down that Rancho Seco Nuclear Generating Station. I mean you already had a nuclear plant producing electricity and it is shut down, why? Because of loud mouthed critics? Not very smart.

Anyways, while the cost of electricity is a little more for alternative energy, a lot more for some, less for others, the gap is closing quickly. Just because something costs a little more doesn't mean it isn't economically feasible.

If corporate welfare is cut off to the energy industry, who knows, maybe alternative energy would become even more attractive.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

Project Aims To Make Sodium-cooled Nuclear Reactors Safe, Efficient
Quote:
Project Aims To Make Sodium-cooled Nuclear Reactors Safe, Efficient
ScienceDaily (Jul. 2, 2007)

Proposals to reduce America's heavy dependence on foreign oil are helping to renew interest in nuclear energy.
And at Kansas State University, the goal is to help make that energy source as safe as possible.

The K-State department of mechanical and nuclear engineering has received a three-year, approximately $550,000 grant from the U.S. Department of Energy's Nuclear Energy Research Initiative for the project "Experimental Development and Demonstration of Ultrasonic Measurement Diagnostics for Sodium Fast Reactor Thermohydraulics." Principal investigator Akira Tokuhiro, associate professor, along with Bruce Babin, assistant professor, Terry Beck, professor, and Mohammad Hosni, professor and department head, will look at technology issues in sodium-cooled fast reactors.

In reactor design, creating the reactor core and then the cooling system are the most important aspects, Tokuhiro said.

"Liquid sodium works well for this task," he said of the cooling system. Sodium conducts heat better than water, which is the current coolant of choice. In addition, sodium's boiling point is higher than water's.
"Reactors produce a lot of heat and you want a coolant that has a high boiling point," Tokuhiro said.

Although sodium makes an excellent coolant for reactors, it is chemically reactive and optically opaque, which has implications for operations, maintenance and inspections. Using sodium, rather than water, as a coolant was the subject of much research in the '60s, '70s and '80s. However, waning support for nuclear energy in the post-Three-Mile Island and Chernobyl years led research and development to basically cease by the early '90s, Tokuhiro said.

The concept is well-known, but Tokuhiro and co-investigators plan to undertake research on how to actually make a sodium-cooled reactor work and work safely and economically.
….
Nuclear energy is a great way to go. Even the French know this.

French Nuclear Power: WNA
Quote:
French Nuclear Power Program

(April 2007)

• France derives over 75% of its electricity from nuclear energy. This is due to a long-standing policy based on energy security.
• France is the world's largest net exporter of electricity due to its very low cost of generation, and gains over EUR 3 billion per year from this.
• France has been very active in developing nuclear technology. Reactors and fuel products and services are a major export.

….

In December 2006 the government's Atomic Energy Committee decided to proceed with a Generation IV sodium-cooled fast reactor prototype whose design features are to be decided by 2012 and the start up aimed for 2020. A new generation of sodium-cooled fast reactor with innovations intended to improve the competitiveness and the safety of this reactor type is the reference approach for this prototype. A gas-cooled fast reactor design is to be developed in parallel as an alternative option. The prototype will also have the mission of demonstrating advanced recycling modes intended to improve the ultimate high-level and long-lived waste to be disposed of. The objective is to have one type of competitive fast reactor technology ready for industrial deployment in France and for export after 2035-2040. The prototype, possibly built near Phenix at Marcoule, will be 250 to 800 MWe and is expected to cost about EUR 1.5 to 2 billion. The project will be led by the CEA.
….
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2008
Norrin Radd Norrin Radd is offline
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
Project Aims To Make Sodium-cooled Nuclear Reactors Safe, Efficient

Nuclear energy is a great way to go. Even the French know this.

French Nuclear Power: WNA
How many taxpayer dollars were used to set up the nuclear industry in France?

Why not go the route of Spain instead?

is one of the three world’s largest users of wind power with an installed capacity of 15,515 MW at January 2008.[1]

On particular windy days, wind power generation has surpassed all other electricity sources in Spain.[2] Wind farms are known as parques eólicos in Spain, eólico being an adjectival form of Aeolus. On April 18, 2008 the all time peak for wind generation was seen (10,879 MW, 32% of Spain's power requirement).[3]--WIKI

32% in a relatively short period of time.

Of course we don't want to do that, as it would not allow the energy monopoly to keep raping the American people, while lobbying Congress for tax breaks.

For an energy source that is not economically feasible, sure is strange that Spain would invest in wind power capable of providing over 10,000 MW of electricity.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2008
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usmc7011 usmc7011 is offline
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Re: Massive Oil Deposit could Increase US reserves by 10x

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
How many taxpayer dollars were used to set up the nuclear industry in France?

Why not go the route of Spain instead?

is one of the three world’s largest users of wind power with an installed capacity of 15,515 MW at January 2008.[1]

On particular windy days, wind power generation has surpassed all other electricity sources in Spain.[2] Wind farms are known as parques eólicos in Spain, eólico being an adjectival form of Aeolus. On April 18, 2008 the all time peak for wind generation was seen (10,879 MW, 32% of Spain's power requirement).[3]--WIKI

32% in a relatively short period of time.

Of course we don't want to do that, as it would not allow the energy monopoly to keep raping the American people, while lobbying Congress for tax breaks.

For an energy source that is not economically feasible, sure is strange that Spain would invest in wind power capable of providing over 10,000 MW of electricity.
No wind = no energy
problems with aviation
Often energy production does not offset start up costs.
The amount of land required to build a sizable farm that would offset start up costs.
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