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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
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jviehe jviehe is offline
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMadsen View Post
The topic is exploitation of the completely natural part of science called skepticism (also known, if you want, as more or less substantiated disagreement) through, quote, "spreading misinformation".

Misinformation is still not synonymous with disagreement and it's certainly not synonymous with denial. Stating that it is is either a result of misinformation or of something worse.
No, Im pretty sure I know what the topic is since I started it, and its that Hansen beleive denying global warming should be criminal. Misinformation is synonomous with disgagreement when critics claim that truth is absolute as Hansen does. Hansen calls it misinformation, we call it disagreement.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

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Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
No, Im pretty sure I know what the topic is since I started it, and its that Hansen beleive denying global warming should be criminal. Misinformation is synonomous with disgagreement when critics claim that truth is absolute as Hansen does. Hansen calls it misinformation, we call it disagreement.
Why don't you quote the passage where Hansen claims global warming is an absolute truth?
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

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Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
No, Im pretty sure I know what the topic is since I started it, and its that Hansen beleive denying global warming should be criminal.
Then it's not much of a topic. Please quote the passage where mr. Hansen expresses his belief that denying global warming should be criminal

Quote:
Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
Misinformation is synonomous with disgagreement when critics claim that truth is absolute as Hansen does.
Nah, whatever kind of absoluteness or relativeness is attributed to the truth of a certain issue does not alter the meaning of concepts like misinformation and disagreement. That kind of reasoning is called a non sequitur.

By the way, I don't understand this claim you're making. Reading the article, mr. Hansen himself points out that skepticism is a natural part of science. That's actually the same as saying that science has no capacity for absolutes. How can you then still say he's claiming a scientific issue to be an absolute truth? Your assessment doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
Hansen calls it misinformation, we call it disagreement.
No, you just happen to agree with the contents of the misinformation. That doesn't make the misinformation any less of deliberately false statements.

Last edited by SMadsen; 06-26-2008 at 06:44 AM.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

I cant think of any better response than: whatever.
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
I cant think of any better response than: whatever.
Of course you can't. You make spurious charges and false assertions that you can't support, and naturally you aren't going to admit that you're in the wrong, which leaves "whatever".

Well done, lad.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

Wahtever seems pretty appropriate to me. In Hansen's own words he says it should be a crime. It's hard to continue any sort of discussion with one who simply can't accept that Hansen actually said it (quoted as saying it and wrote it himself).
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

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Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
Wahtever seems pretty appropriate to me. In Hansen's own words he says it should be a crime. It's hard to continue any sort of discussion with one who simply can't accept that Hansen actually said it (quoted as saying it and wrote it himself).
Well, there is the question of precisely what "it" refers to. But at least we can safely rule out that he meant the mere denial of GW.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

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Originally Posted by Pogo View Post
Well, there is the question of precisely what "it" refers to. But at least we can safely rule out that he meant the mere denial of GW.
Here's the what:
Quote:
....

"When you are in that kind of position, as the CEO of one the primary players who have been putting out misinformation even via organisations that affect what gets into school textbooks, then I think that's a crime," he told the paper.

He said such execs, should be put on trial for high crimes against humanity, and pointed the finger at their lobbyists and paid pols into the bargain, saying that their actions had undermined democracy....
Lock'em all up.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

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Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
Your point being what? Does that somehow not make him an expert in the field of Atmospheric Physics?
No, it makes him a fool.

There is nothing wrong, really, with scientists funded by or even working directly for a biased party. Ironically, that's often the only way to broaden the field of research by pursuing different paths than the popularly called "consensus". But no scientist in his right mind gets on the payrole of a biased party and actually contributes to the popular debate rather than keeping to the science.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
No, people who claim that there is a scientific consensus are the ones misleading people. They seek to label anyone who disagrees with their findings as being "fringe". Stances like that make a mockery of science.
Agreed.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

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Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
I cant think of any better response than: whatever.
I can't think of a better and more accurate response than: I know.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

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Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
Here's the what:

Lock'em all up.
Precisely. We're talking about intentionally spreading misinformation, not the mere denial of GW.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMadsen View Post
No, it makes him a fool.

There is nothing wrong, really, with scientists funded by or even working directly for a biased party. Ironically, that's often the only way to broaden the field of research. But no scientist in his right mind gets on the payrole of a biased party and actually contributes to the debate rather than keeping to the science....
Bullshit. The vast majority of scientists would never risk compromising their scientific integrity for money, especially after the years of outrageous work required to get in the position to actually do research.

That is a steaming pile of it. If it was only one scientist who accepted money from these sources, then maybe a bad apple has been uncovered. But that's not the case.

What utter nonsense.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
Bullshit. The vast majority of scientists would never risk compromising their scientific integrity for money, especially after the years of outrageous work required to get in the position to actually do research.

That is a steaming pile of it. If it was only one scientist who accepted money from these sources, then maybe a bad apple has been uncovered. But that's not the case.

What utter nonsense.
No, the vast majority of scientists will not compromise their scientific integrity by getting funded by the fossil fuel industries. I don't disagree with that. Neither in my post above nor elsewhere. What exactly are you calling bullshit?
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

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Originally Posted by Pogo View Post
Of course you can't. You make spurious charges and false assertions that you can't support, and naturally you aren't going to admit that you're in the wrong, which leaves "whatever".

Well done, lad.
I willing to admit that I do not have the capability to convince someone how rediculous it is to agree with someone who says people should be locked up for disagreeing with global warming. My time would be better spent convincing someone the sky is purple.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008
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Re: Hansen: Denying Global Warming should be Illegal

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Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
I willing to admit that I do not have the capability to convince someone how rediculous it is to agree with someone who says people should be locked up for disagreeing with global warming. My time would be better spent convincing someone the sky is purple.
It is sometimes.
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