True, but when that trend is 30-40 years long, then we can talk. Far more likely that this is just a short term variation as would be expected if one looks at the data:



As you can quite clearly see, the temperature over the short term fluctuates, while the long term trend is obviously increasing in temperature.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

another opinion

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Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

If warming over the past few decades has been due to the sun, explain this.

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He who learns but does not think is lost! He who thinks but does not learn is in great danger. --Confucius

Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors.
--African proverb

Science is a wonderful thing if one does not have to earn one's living at it.
--Albert Einstein

So the logical approach to this is to believe the "experts" hired by the affected industries to "debunk" the consensus of the experts not hired by the industry.

That's how you know that smoking tobacco is a choice that promotes good health.

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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

that stopped and reversed over the past few years, kind of like the warming did.

__________________
Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Its true! Philip morris told me, and for god's sakes look at all the science showing smoking is good for us!!!

Surprise! Surprise!

Is it any surprise that the party of drill-baby-drill supports the belief that global warming is just make-believe, and that the majority of climate scientists in the world are simply wrong?

there is nothing wrong with wanting to get off oil, its a good idea but not a good enough idea to bankrupt the country over.

so why not take a more sound course ?

lets use what we have until there is a viable solution. domestic production and use of natural gas can offer that.

temp went up .6 of a degree and leveled off despite CO2 continuing up. we were told by these scietists that that this could not be.

and lets face it, it was the mother of all mistakes to allow Al Gore to be the standard bearer for this. his stuff is chock full of inaccuracies and admitted lies. and the fact that he's lined himself up to make money off the carbon trading schemes is just a needlessly damning thing.

__________________
Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

In 1999 Lassen updated his data. There were errors in the data on the original.

http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu...s/Laut2003.pdf

From his 1999 paper he concludes:

“It has previously been demonstrated that the mean land air temperature of the Northern hemisphere could adequately be associated with a long-term variation of solar activity as given by the length of the approximately 11- year solar cycle. Adding new temperature data for the 1990’s and expected values for the next sunspot extrema we test whether the solar cycle length model is still adequate. We find that the residuals are now inconsistent with the pure solar model. We conclude that since around 1990 the type of Solar forcing that is described by the solar cycle length model no longer dominates the long-term variation of the Northern hemisphere land air temperature.”

http://www.dmi.dk/dmi/sr99-9.pdf

Your link is 20 years out of date.

Andrew

__________________
“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

???

What reversed? If you take the time and look at the data (from satellites, unimpeded by atmospheric interference), solar irradiance has been a flatline from 1978 to now. Yet you claim an unchanging variable is responsible for change in temperature. It doesn't make any sense.

__________________
He who learns but does not think is lost! He who thinks but does not learn is in great danger. --Confucius

Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors.
--African proverb

Science is a wonderful thing if one does not have to earn one's living at it.
--Albert Einstein

Which i already showed quite clearly is a short term variation that is very visible in the long term trend.

Andrew

__________________
“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

How about funding manhattan-project style projects for renewable energy improvements in wind, solar, nuclear, battery technology, tidal energy as part of getting to a 'viable solution' a bit more quickly?

We spend 500 billion on the military annually and a trillion dollars on the Iraq war over oil. Wouldn't it be prudent to spend $50 billion per year developing a much better replacement for oil? Wouldn't that go just as far towards our military security as anything? (since the middle east is one of our main military problems and getting off oil would do wonders for extricating ourselves from that part of the world).

Are you NUTS?

Kellogg, Brown and Root and Hailliburton don't do wind, solar, nuclear, battery technology, or tidal energy.

as a replacement for cap-n-trade ? you bet ! better still you can just offer to not tax that sort of R&D and maufacture. no cost to that at all.

but lets admit that we've already spent more than that in solar and wind with nothing much to show for it. there isn't much we have in sufficient volume to cook it down to something gas like. tidal ? intreguing but how doable ? not sure.

I know we dont presently have a cheap and easy way to "do" hydrogen but boy if there were ! maybe the solution there is nuclear to power it. maybe as a byproduct ? who klnows ?

incentive over punishment any day.

__________________
Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Not taxing companies wasn't how the Manhattan project succeeded. It was a *gasp* government run program completely and wholely funded by the US Taxpayer.

Are you kidding? Europe spends WAY more than the US per capita on R&D for alternative energies like that. Wind, for example, gets a whopping ~$50 million per year for Europe TOTAL. Here's the charts for their wind-research funding (and its not even close to 50 billion dollars TOTAL much less 50 billion dollars per year).

Support for wind R&D at MemberStatelevel

Germany spends the most, a whopping $18 million a year.

In other words, $50 billion a year (or much less if it was done in an organized and concerted fashion) would be 1,000 times more money spent on renewable energy research than we have ever done before. The US typically spends way less in this manner than Europe does.

The Hydrogen economy is for the most part a scam by the oil industry, and a bit by the corn industry. It makes politicians look 'green' while putting more money in the pockets of big oil. Do you know what the most readily available source for hydrogen is? Methane, natural gas, and other 'hydrocarbons' including even coal. Hydrogen is the "Hy" part of Hydrocarbon. Guess what the 'drocarbon' part is, and where it goes when the hydrogen is stripped agay? That's right, its CO2 going right into the atmosphere which is the whole problem.

Personally I don't mind Nuclear, but there would need to be a manhattan style project to figure out how to deal with the waste, and how to limit the production of waste.

right, billions spent and for what ? thats not the answer.

split water and the by product is O2. just costly to do it.

nuclear waste HAS a sollution, under a mountain. and considering how little waste there is so far, thats not so troubling. that being said, I'm sure nuclear power could be done better than we do it in 30+ year old reactors now.

__________________
Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand