We really dont' have to go much farther then this. If this were true, most forms of multicellular life would have died, there would have been a mass extinction more significant then the Permian Event. And you and everyone else, and all their animals wouldn't be here.

So it's safe to assume the rest of your "facts" are meaninless lies as well.

Who says there had to be life of earth for there to be an ice age? The environment would seem to be much more complex than some simple computer model.

I do appreciate Kramer’s efforts to shed some light on environmental issues and particularly his efforts to correct the propaganda of environmental extremists, but arguing with environmental extremists who have bought into the lies of Al Gore and the alleged thousands of climate scientists who accuse humanity of messing with the Earth’s thermostat is like arguing with flat-earthers, ridged closed minded religious fanatics, or a rock. You would have a more productive discussion with a 2x4. Extreme assertions are made and any evidence that contradicts the dogma is denied. I have posted reams of posts with probably hundreds of links on this forum to no avail. Standard response is to deny and attack the character of the person questioning the sacred dogma of man made global warming (or man made climate change as the phrase they like to us now, since there has been no warming recently) and to keep regurgitating the same old discredited doctrines like Mann’s hockey stick graph or flawed computer models.

It really is a waste of time trying to convince religious fanatics that their dogma is based on an outdate and discredited ideology and has little to do with science. It ranks right up there with biblical creationism and eugenics. Eventually people will look back and try to understand the mentalities that bought into this bullshit. Until than, all we can hope to do is keep correcting the record (thank you Kramer) and doing our best to stop idiotic policies like cap and tax from being enacted into law (talk about an economy killer).

tashi deleks,

M

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"They haven't got Brains, any of them, only grey fluff that's blown into their heads by mistake, and they don't Think." -- Eeyore, The House At Pooh Corner

Sit like a mountain,
Breathe like the wind,
Mind like the Sky.

When all the Gods are crazy, who do you pray to?

In the profession I work in, you come with data and evidence to back up your claim. I too appreciate Kramer at least asking questions based on graphs and such instead of just rhetoric, but the rebuttal arguments in this thread to what he said have a lot of evidence behind them. I don't see those being addressed. If you want to defend an argument, that's what you have to do.

But, I'm not surprised by your comments. I seem to remember you putting outdated, debunked arguments included in a work of fiction as on par with the last 20 years of scientific research that support very different conclusions. I find it hilarious that you scoff at "religious dogma" in light of that. You might want to see how much cherry picking of data is going into your arguments.

But, I won't hold my breath.

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He who learns but does not think is lost! He who thinks but does not learn is in great danger. --Confucius

Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors.
--African proverb

Science is a wonderful thing if one does not have to earn one's living at it.
--Albert Einstein

How's this - it's all bullshit. There is nothing man can do to change the energy balance on the Earth - nothing. One major volcanic eruption disrupts everything in an instant way more that anything we do, and the "fragile Earth" recovers. It's a weirdly resonant cause that socialist pawns rally around and malevolent public figures rape for private gain.

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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

^^
I read through this thread now and it has been interesting from both sides of the argument. Your post however seems to be by far the weakest of all. Maybe you should do the same as I do and generally limit yourself to reading the thread.

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""Even though our unity is our strength, our diversity remains our wealth,""
Herman Van Rompuy

Most people don’t know that thousands of direct measures of atmospheric CO2 were made beginning in 1812. Scientists took the readings with calibrated instruments and precise measurements as the work of Ernst-Georg Beck has thoroughly documented. Guy Stewart Callendar was an earlier visitor to these records. He rejected most of the records including 69% of the 19th century records and only selected certain records that established the pre-industrial level as 280 ppm. Here is a plot of the records with those Callendar selections circled.

Elimination of data is also done with the Mauna Loa and other atmospheric readings, which can vary up to 600 ppm in the course of a day. Beck explains how Charles Keeling established the Mauna Loa readings by using the lowest readings of the afternoon. He ignored natural sources, a practice that continues. Beck presumes Keeling decided to avoid these low level natural sources by establishing the station at 4000 meters (m) up the volcano. As Beck notes “Mauna Loa does not represent the typical atmospheric CO2 on different global locations but is typical only for this volcano at a maritime location in about 4000 m altitude at that latitude.” (Beck, 2008, “50 Years of Continuous Measurement of CO2 on Mauna Loa” Energy and Environment, Vol 19, No.7.)
Pre-industrial CO2 levels were about the same as today. How and why we are told otherwise?

Junk in, junk out. And, we're to base changing the whole world based upon some simpleton computer program?

If Socrates was around today he'd be astonished at how little logical pursuit had advanced.

But doesn't that mean GW is a good thing? I don't want to see the return of an Ice Age, I don't care if it does take a thousand years or so to start, they will be a miserable thousand years and then followed by possibly several hundred millenia of pure hell

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Alizee Jacotay, the reason god invented hips

amen to that

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Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

It sure beats Global Freezing.

I think if socrates were around today he would be entirely horrified that oil and gas corporations pay the the author of your article for the explicit purpose of denying anthropogenic climate change and convincing dumb people of a massive conspiracy theory. That is certainly not the way to wisdom, Socrates would say.

<mrcool>

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

Its not as if we are putting just enough co2 into atmosphere, cutting down just enough forests, and acidifying just enough of the ocean to conveniently just avoid an ice age.

We are not that sophisticated.

Going naturally into an ice age would be a slow process, with plenty of time for adaptation. Going head first into global warming without a clue as to the consequences, the tipping points, or with any way to control or stop it is very fucking stupid and existentially dangerous.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

Not really. Humans are far more adapted to cold weather than to hot.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

Your same old canard. It's baseless.

Here's a map of the world's population density per country:


I figure Socrates could figure out the fallacy of your statement. See if you can.