uh...because it's faster than walking and makes travelling easier.

what's wrong with our current level of consumption if we can figure out ways of making it sustainable?

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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine

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he does nto believe it can be made sustainable

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Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Whatever gets you through your day.

Why don't you imagine asking someone 30 years ago if the necessity of DOMA or bans on same sex 'marriage' would be necessary, and then imagine the reaction? My guess is that just about anybody in '79 would have looked at you like you were nuts for suggesting that such legislation would even have to be discussed. It would have gone without saying then.

Or, imagine asking that same person if it would be considered 'progress' that a stiff fine and a lag time on the air were doled out for nudity during the Super Bowl.

Or, just imagine this. Ask the average religious rightie whether the country was better off a few decades ago, morally, or if it's better off today. Then, when they say that things are going to hell in a handbasket, ask them why that is, given their political preferences and strong voting influence during that time.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

first of all, i don't really need you to answer for him, but thanks anyway.

second of all, just because the current technology might not be sustainable does not make it impossible for the technology to develop.

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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine

Tell you what - I'll save the suspense. Duping what I'll call "preservationists" into voting for you is easy. If I tell the environmentalists that I'm running for office in order to preserve the forests in the country exactly as-is, and I fail, it goes without saying that I can blame it on my political opponents. So, my failure becomes a success. I just tell them, "evil capitalist corporations are working to destroy the Earth, and I slowed them down a bit. If you don't vote for me, they'll continue unchecked!"

In this manner, my failure actually becomes a selling point.

The same logic applies with most of the wedge issues that fuel the religious right.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Absolutely. i would even argue that oil/gas development (especially now) is not economically viable without government subsidy.

But the reason these are subsidized is to keep the economic "train 'a' rollin", so to speak. These things drive the global economy.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

Daddio is right though, i do not think infinite growth (where material growth is the end goal, i.e., mass consumer society) is a sustainable enterprise.

Technological innovation is only ever brought to market is so far as it helps to grow said economy.

So while I acknowledge that technological innovation in this regard is not impossible, i think bringing it to market in mass consumer society bent on endless material growth is self-contradictory.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

These points are not lost on the "deep ecology", "ant-civ", "anarchy", or "primitivist" movement. This one of the reasons why - the endless game of political nonsense - they advocate total deconstruction of the current paradigm.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

how is it self-contradictory?

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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine

Efficiency is a common buzz word surrounding sustainability, but in our growth oriented economy efficiency actually has the opposite effect on the consumption rate of resources.

Jevons paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Khazzoom-Brookes postulate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But mainly, a growth economy cannot be sustainable simply be definition if growth is defined in terms of the accumulation of material possessions by a growing population. How is that not self contradictory? The earth has ecological limits that we have already overshot by a factor of more than 3. We only support the current global population by consuming ancient energy stored in fossil fuels.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

Higher fuel prices are a domestic concern that affects the general welfare of the several States.

Alternative fuel capable vehicles could be acquired by executive fiat for the executive departments of the several States due to that branches' authority over its own budget. It could set an example that legislatures could follow. Such a policy could provide an impetus for advances in alternative fuel technologies and fuel cell technologies.

Providing an impetus for those technologies can improve our general welfare and standard of living.

I suspect, given Andrewls level of understanding science coupled with his immovable resolve, that your only option to reply is with an attack on his character.

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The bush administration and bank lobbyists proudly killing our economic system - 2003.

I think (if this is REALLY a scientific problem and not an opinion issue) that "compromise" is foolish. A right/wrong issue that is resolved with compromise is still wrong to BOTH sides.

But I don't buy a lot of the green-based fear mongering anyway. Just a passing thought.

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I have a Theory that the truth is never told between nine to five hours" - HST

It is a scientific as well as ideological/political issue. The science indicates that we should cut most emissions of GHG immediately. But it should be clear to anyone that this is simply not going to happen voluntarily, as a result of politics and ideology. Hence, if law and order rules the day, compromise leading to mitigation is most likely the best that can be done.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

I think public policy should be applied in a more market friendly manner.

Production runs on underground industrial waste water management systems could run as long as our wars on abstractions and could clean up most of those gasses and process waste water that would otherwise flow into rivers, streams and wetlands. It could be considered a purposes for why our Congress is delegated the power to "raise money for the general welfare".