Hmmm...I don't know...the event that caused the dinosaurs to go extinct was much more extreme than what is occurring now. What's happening now isn't even in the same ballpark of of that event. It's like pee-wee league vs MLB.

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A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw

Fifty days would be close to the November options expiration for U.S. stocks. I am guessing that Al Gore has some stock options that are out of the money, and he promised to cut Gordy in on some cash if he can help get the green stocks up enough before they expire.

This is all of the information about this treaty. It is basically redistribution of wealth from the US to 3rd world countries. It also supercedes our Constitution (but who cares about that thing anyway)

United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change

hehe.. yes. But keep in mind that the argument favored by denialists is that GW is natural. My point is that the rate of warming currently being observed and recorded is unprecedented when compared to "natural" global climate change episodes.

I think we can rule out any sudden massive asteroid strikes in the last 30 or so years. We probably would have noticed.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

LOOK OUT ! BEHIND YOU !

Say Andy, me being a tree hugger from way back (I've been worried about deforestation for 40 years) do you consider this to be a significant factor in the big old GW picture as well ?

__________________
Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Yes. Deforestation is responsible for about 20% of emissions.

Andrew

__________________
“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

OK, woudl that be because of the CO2 (others?) that they are NOT "eating", CO2 that is being emmited as a result of the deforestation activities, both , other or something else ?

__________________
Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Both, and other things as well.

Cutting down and clearing any old growth forest destroys an extremely important CO2 sink. Also burning is a common way to clear forest, directly emitting CO2.

Also you have to look at what the land is then used for after the clearcutting. Typically it is intensive farming, which is also a source of cO2 emissions (and methane).

Andrew

__________________
“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

I could have sworn asteroids where natural...

Anyways, it was a much more dramatic change, than what's occurring now, and life still was able to adapt and overcome. Why wouldn't life be able to do the same thing with a less extreme change in the climate if it has already accomplished this task in a much worse scenario?

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A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw

Certainly. When talking about climate change people are usually referring to the slow gradual change of the earths systems over the 4 billion years of its life.

Massive asteroid impacts are in a somewhat different category, although they do cause climate change, that is true.


Some form of life probably would adapt and overcome, not necessarily life as we know it.

My issue is that this episode of climate change is caused by global industrial civilization. Under natural circumstances it is reasonable assume that we would have hundreds of thousands of years of stable environment before the climate changed naturally, and slowly. This means that we as humans, but also many other life forms, would have time to adapt. Right now we have destroyed and are destroying so many habitats and ecosystems all over the globe that if we survive this climate change episode, which we probably will in some form, other life forms simply won't have the space or be able to adapt in time. Which means a great deal for our long term survival.

We are literally talking about a mass extinction event on par with the earths largest mass extinctions. And it can be avoided, unlike naturally occurring climate change or asteroid impacts. Its an ethical and moral problem, just as much if not more than it is a scientific or technical problem.

If we go with your argument that "life will regenerate and survive anyway so why should we care" - than how is this different from saying the holocaust was really no big deal because enough Jewish people survived to regenerate their population anyway?

Andrew

__________________
“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

well at least we can agree that deforestation is terrible, who would have thought !

__________________
Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

so why is it YOUR science always trumps everyones elses science?

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

I sourced the science as it is. No rebuttal i have received has brought any science whatsoever to the discussion.

Please, I'm waiting for you to show me quantitatively how the graph i provided and sourced is incorrect. Waiting....

Andrew

__________________
“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

So let me get this straight. You agreed that the event (possible asteroid impact) was a much more traumatic event than what is going on today, by leaps and bounds, yet you said life won't be able to adapt well enough. That seems completely contradictory. Life really doesn't decrease, it just changes. If the event that made dinosaurs extinct wouldn't have happened then there would be tons of life forms that exist today that never would have been. The climate change enabled a fundamental change to which types of life forms were viable. Regardless, life adapted in a worse environmental shift than what is happening now so this change should be a cake walk.

__________________
A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw

I never said the asteroid impact was more traumatic than the possible consequences of AGW. Indeed, I said the exact opposite. I clearly said what we are doing is equal to the mass extinctions of times past (but worse, because we are occupying too many spaces where life might otherwise rebound). i agreed that an asteroid impact happens faster than AGW, that is not that same thing as the ultimate results.

Try to read my posts again, you failed the first time.

Andrew

__________________
“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen