It's painfully obvious that if the data doesn't say what they want it to, they will adjust the methodology until it does.
When will you give up! It should be obvious to anyone that anything but raw data has been corrupted by "scientists" with a vested interest in the outcome.
I've even seen evidence of the raw data being manipulated by adding an air conditioning unit to a building right below where the sensor is located. Tell me that wasn't an attempt to point to a dramatic rise in temperature for that location. In another instance, the area surrounding a sensor was paved with fresh, black asphalt which has affected data due to radiation from that pavement.

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I'm sick and tired of my brothers and sisters dying to preserve Americans' right to drive like assholes.

What exactly is zealotry in climate science? Do you have any specific examples?

Do you think that the coal lobby industry that was nailed for actual fraud concerning climate science has the same credibility problem?

Do you know/understand any of the context of the hacked emails from CRU?

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

Turns out it is the NA Climate Science Coalition (which it turns out does not actually staff any climate scientists... WTF) that is lying about this whole thing. They have known for two years why the adjusments were made, and that they are legitimate. They are simply another hack denialist group that spends their days and money not doing any research but figuring out ways to defraud the public.

Hardly surprising.

NZ sceptics lie about temp records, try to smear top scientist ? Hot Topic

NIWA - NIWA confirms temperature rise

This is so ridiculous, and its a real shame that actual working scientists are being forced to waste their time defending such baseless and dishonest accusations from people who have neither the credentials nor integrity to deserve any attention from the media.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

yes, of course, its all about 'context' you see...I can read thank you.

Zealotry is when you decide to turn away from your scientific discipline and become dogmatic; denying contrary evidence, defaming contrary evidence based on nothing other than disagreement, misconstruing, misstating, discarding inconvenient facts or worthy suppositions based in/on science no more/less questionable or not as your own, efforts to exclude other opinion and sppting witch-hunts vis a vis ‘opposition’ positions and people whom sppt. it.

I spent 1 and a ½ hours reading as many of those e mails as I could Andrew.

No I didn’t read them all and I am sure there are some that may in fact be discussing something no more nefarious than stern defense of an outlook or positions, but its way beyond that as well. They have and this is not the first time we have seen this before have become ideologically driven. That’s why sppt for global warming, oh wait ‘climate change’ is withering.


Like the other scenarios, this cannot stand on its own merit there fore all contrary positions will be if not destroyed, then denigrated or ignored. The people bomb, acid rain, ice ages….please. Thts not science, that’s willful ignorance and a betrayal of the very principals they pay lip service too.

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

Bis interimitur qui suis armis perit...

So why do you take it all out of context?

Do you have any specific examples?

why? its not as if you could make any sense of them.... or were you just looking for something to cherry pick without having any understanding of the context?

Only in america its withering, and the reason is due to industry lobby groups deliberately misrepresenting and confusing the science, or in this case, making conclusions based on snippets of emails taken way out of context by poeple who are not qualified.

Its terribly disappointing how infected you have become by the efforts of paid industry lobbyists to deliberately confuse you.

The only evidence i have ever seen of fraud and dishonesty comes directly from the paid industry funded denialists groups, and this is all proven fraud and lies, as per my response to Kramer above.

The only dogma i see comes from you and others like you who dont' look at the science and only listen to the denialists.

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

nah, It's just parting it on the side.

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January 21, 2013: The End of an ERROR.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."
---Benjamin Franklin

Interestingly enough, Mars is melting too.

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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb discussing what's for dinner.
Liberty is a well armed lamb willing to contest the majority decision!" ~ Benjamin Franklin
"Diplomacy is the art of saying Nice Doggie! while you're looking for a rock. ~ Wynn Catlin
"There are no innocent civilians." - Gerneral Curtis Lemay. A.K.A Bombs away Lemay

*frowns and wonders...*

just as an aside...

i wonder how i'd be received if, on one 'o Jviehe's many "tribute" threads to fallen US soldiers blown up by IEDs, i said somethin' like this;

"good, now there's one less roadside bomb and the streets are safer for all!"

imma sure that the TS and many on USPO would fly into rage...so why do folks do it routinely on the "Enviornmental Issues" forum, when the author, Andrewl, be a serious poster?

the smart arse comments that go up on threads like this be tiresome.

- MeadHallPirate

yes, another long ago debunked denialist canard.

Global warming on Mars, ice caps melting

please, respond to the science.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

"Suggest"
"May be"
"as much as"

You could drive a truck through those wiggle words. Not to mention that programers wrote a simulation program for this and that the total amount of warming from this simulation suggests it may be as much as 60%.

Kramer

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“We should never be more vigilant than at the moment a new dogma is being installed. … The left has been swept along, entranced by the allure of weather as revolutionary agent, naïvely conceiving of global warming as a crisis that will force radical social changes on capitalism.”

TheNation, June 7, 2007

So now honesty amongst scientists is your gripe?

The sun cannot be used to explain warming on earth so why would it explain warming on mars? Well, it turns out that the dust on mars offers us a much better explanation.

BTW, your NZ story really turned out to be more lies coming from the denialist crowd. See above.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

What it boils down to is that those responsible for the AGW hype have been exposed as political scientists, damaging the credibility of any scientist seeking to debate public policy.

If the discussion doesn't involve energy independence for the individual, its a waste of time.

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January 21, 2013: The End of an ERROR.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."
---Benjamin Franklin

Not at all. My gripe is that the claim of albedo forcing isn't that strong.

The sun is the main reason for the warmth of the earth.

In addition, if you look at the last 500 million years of the earth, there is practically zero correlation of high CO2 levels creating warmer temperatures. In fact, the data shows just the opposite, when CO2 levels were high, temps were low and when CO2 levels were low, temps were high. CO2 is a very weak GHG.

Even Gore recently lowered the power of CO2 to about 40% of the recent warming.

A simulation suggests that dust may have added up to 60% of the warming? Right...
I'd love to read the comments of that simulation that was written for this. Too bad they probably deleted that program (or edited out the damning comments).




Yeah, I saw that. If true, it's disappointing.

Speaking of lying, what about the comment from a professor who said another climate scientist wrote to him that "we need to get rid of the MWP?" What about Mann's 1st hockey stick where M&M were obstructed by Mann and others when they were looking at it? Are you ok with this type of open science? What about the comments in the emails to delete emails/data and obstruct FOI request? Any problem with this?

The bottom line is, ALL of the data, code, emails, etc. at ALL major climate centers (GISS, NOAA, IPCC, CRU, etc.) needs to be made public for a year or two for public review. Those emails are damaging to your side, and even if they never were made public, we would still need to have full access to all data, code, etc, from all major climate centers, And I thought I read in one of those emails (I'm paraphrasing) that the IPCC is exempt from FOI requests. Is this true? If it is, then this is bullshit. Do you agree?

We need to know the truth before we let the DNC and Obama sign America's future away.

Kramer

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“We should never be more vigilant than at the moment a new dogma is being installed. … The left has been swept along, entranced by the allure of weather as revolutionary agent, naïvely conceiving of global warming as a crisis that will force radical social changes on capitalism.”

TheNation, June 7, 2007

wonder if anyone has been looking under the ice there ?

might have volcanos down south too.

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Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

LOL.

You think so?

we are talking hundreds of millions being made homeless, including 13 million in Europe, and major cities on the eastern seaboard of the US being inundated with 100 year floods about every four years.

This is what you have to think about:

Sea Level Rise Due To Global Warming Poses Threat To New York City

hope you are up to the challenge!