All very good points.

Until it turns out that that frog secretes a protein that is a cure for a disease.

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Noli arrogantium iniurias pati

How do you know the dam being built didn't supply energy for the house of a small boy who was able to stay up late reading science books, and when he gets older he comes up with the cure for cancer and discovers anti-gravity?

There's lots of houses with electricity, only one pond with the frog.

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It's a small world, unless you gotta walk home.

Democrats are sexy. Who ever heard of a nice piece of elephant?

99% of all species that have ever lived are extinct. 'Adapt or Die' remains nature's one immutable law and governs the most natural of processes. We may be accelerating the pace with some, but we have saved others and it is the ultimate fate of all, including ourselves. Mankind is indeed doomed, we always were, the real question is will what comes after thank us for having been here

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Alizee Jacotay, the reason god invented hips

IT'S ON YOUTUBE, IT MUST BE TRUE

You are really understating the case here. There is a background extinction rate that can be considered normal. The current extinction rate is orders of magnitude higher than the background extinction rate and it is all directly related to how human civilization destroys the landbase and oceans for living space and resources.

We are essentially committing suicide and ecocide simultaneously since no life can ultimately survive a world stripped of its biodiversity.

Mankind has not always been doomed by its own making.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

Congratulations John! We seldom agree on anything, but in this case you are dead on.
It would appear that this species of frog was destined to become extinct like all other species, but at a far faster rate. Successful species develop traits that allow them to spread out and compete with other species for food and habitat. In any given niche, only one of 2 or more competing species will survive. A tiny frog that only inhabits a very small area, either could not expand outside their area or has been contracted by competition and are making their "last stand". The species is doomed. Though human development might spell the end of the poor froggie, it is hardly the reason the species went extinct. "Anthropogenic Frog Extinction" is a myth.

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I'm sick and tired of my brothers and sisters dying to preserve Americans' right to drive like assholes.

*raises a finger (index finger) to disagree politely*

ahoy Ernie S.!


matey, actually this be not completely true. i just woke up and be too groggy to link all the science to ye, but CFCs pumped into the atmosphere by man has had a deleterious effect on the ozone layer, thinnin' it out.

because them poor frogs, all 'o them, have a kinda skin that be sensitive to UV rays, we indeed have hastened the end to many species 'o froggies.

but aye, i can concede that both you and master JohnDrake be correct. this tiny golden froggy indeed seemed to be quietly livin' on the margins 'o our planet and never thrived as other species have. perhaps they were doomed all along, yet it still be a sad thing that it was our actions destroyed thar final refuge.

*bows*

-MeadHallPirate

Let's assume that CFC's did have an effect on the poor froggies. I would bet that there are species that may benefit from an increase in UV.
At any rate, your argument only proves my point that species that can't adapt are doomed. It makes little difference what species forces the adaptation. Man is part of the competition for the environment. Humans building a dam is no different that a lion eating a wildebeest.

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I'm sick and tired of my brothers and sisters dying to preserve Americans' right to drive like assholes.

*agrees with Ernie S.*

haha, point well made, me friend.

yer probably correct that thar be species that will thrive on increased UV light...however, two points...

a) mankind, sadly, is not one 'o them and

b) mankind, unlike the lion, be the only species that can actively and willfully mitigate its behavior to limit the destruction 'o the planet's biodiversity.
i hearken back to Andrewl's assertion, which be that we ought to try and limit the astonishing rate 'o extinction 'o species on our planet, if not fer moral reasons (the honorable Tim's position), then fer purely selfish ones.

*bows*

- MeadHallPirate

...or maybe he grows up to be the CEO of a deforestation corporation?

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

True sir, but while we do have the ability to mitigate, that same ability allows us to succeed in otherwise hostile environments. Lions have teeth, claws and speed. We have brains. Had we the same ability to reason as the lion, we'd have been all eaten up and extinct by now.
I have trouble understanding why survival of the fittest only applies to no human species.

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I'm sick and tired of my brothers and sisters dying to preserve Americans' right to drive like assholes.

So you are assuming that Homo Sapien is inherently evil?

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I'm sick and tired of my brothers and sisters dying to preserve Americans' right to drive like assholes.

aye, Ernie S., aye...

i think you and i be agreein'.
humans be a species apart from all the wonders 'o life that fill our planet.
we be different and blessed with powers that no lion, no flora, no fauna, and certainly no froggy, can compete with. we be the masters.

i think survival 'o the fittest applies to all species, its just that i have trouble applyin' this metric when ye factor humans into the equation.

*frowns and tries to reason this out*

i guess what imma tryin' to say, be this;

if i see an eagle swoop outta the sky and pluck a sparrow from flight, thats "survival of the fittest" to me.

now, take another look at this teeny tiny froggy...

'tis no bigger than the eagle next to me avatar, that be its real life proportions.
if this creature can, as ye put it, "make its last stand" in a waterfall in Tanzania...well then, its adapted and survived, despite long odds.

mankind coming into its land and summarily damming the entire river that made up its final refuge doesn't quite seem to me as "survival 'o the fittest".
sorta seems to be a perversion 'o the term.
'tis more like survival 'o the heedless.

*sighs*

on this sad note, imma goin' to work.

*waves*

- MeadHallPirate

Not at all. I'm assuming that a child born into a civilized culture is far more likely to end up as a cog in the wheel of ecocide.

I love mankind - i simply just hate this culture.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

Tis a cute little froggie to be sure and it's survival is to be sure, important to it's froggie parents, but alas, not to much else. Our power of reasoning is really no different than the lion's claws. Reasoning is what sets us apart and allows us to locally affect our environment. Froggie does not have that ability, I'll grant you, but what makes any species more important? Lions eat wildebeests, moles eat earthworms, and we displace frogs. Let's say that a predator that lived a few miles away, adapted to life in froggie's domain and in a matter of a couple years threatened to eat all the frogs. Would it be out duty to drive out the predator?
Then why is it our duty to deny our ability to exploit our environment?

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I'm sick and tired of my brothers and sisters dying to preserve Americans' right to drive like assholes.