Thread: The cost of gullibility.

These are the kind of numbers that Danny is proud of! Oh, Canada!

These are the kind of numbers the greenies don't like to talk about.

On the other hand, when the oil runs out it is going to be highly beneficial to have the infrastructure for renewable energy already in place. It's a sensible policy when examined from the long-term perspective.

Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat

On the other hand, when the oil runs out it is going to be highly beneficial to have the infrastructure for renewable energy already in place. It's a sensible policy when examined from the long-term perspective.

Some people can't think long-term. It's "now, now, now!"

Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat

On the other hand, when the oil runs out it is going to be highly beneficial to have the infrastructure for renewable energy already in place. It's a sensible policy when examined from the long-term perspective.

Will you stop with the goddam LOGIC and FACTS. The cons had yet another perfectly good rant about nothing started here, and we could have had them alll joining in, going on and on about how smart they are to waste energy and how brainless inefficiency is the American Way. It even had the added fillip of being done in CANADA and so technically none of our goddam business. Then you come along with all this "common sense"....yeeshh.

Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat

On the other hand, when the oil runs out it is going to be highly beneficial to have the infrastructure for renewable energy already in place. It's a sensible policy when examined from the long-term perspective.

It's not actually true that we'll run out of fossil fuels any time soon. We've got enough to last about 200 more years (with all the coal that can be turned into fossil fuels as well).

However, the environmental price of using these fossil fuels is a lot higher than we should be willing to pay.

Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat

On the other hand, when the oil runs out it is going to be highly beneficial to have the infrastructure for renewable energy already in place. It's a sensible policy when examined from the long-term perspective.

Our grandchildren's grandchildren will all be long dead of old age before we run out of oil...

Originally Posted by Helene

It's not actually true that we'll run out of fossil fuels any time soon. We've got enough to last about 200 more years (with all the coal that can be turned into fossil fuels as well).

However, the environmental price of using these fossil fuels is a lot higher than we should be willing to pay.

It will be prohibitively more expensive when we reach peak oil, which is within a few years to a decade. The oil producing nations will then adjust exports for domestic reserves - and boom, talk about a price hike.

Originally Posted by Rude Boy

It will be prohibitively more expensive when we reach peak oil, which is within a few years to a decade. The oil producing nations will then adjust exports for domestic reserves - and boom, talk about a price hike.

I don't think this necessarily is the case. Setting up plants to create fossil fuels out of coal will require a costly initial investment, but after that we can continue with our addition to fossil fuels just fine.

Regardless, I don't think the point should be whether we will or won't run out of fossil fuels. It's whether we can afford to continue to use them, not financially, but environmentally. Even if global warming isn't real, we still run a serious risk of creating an environment that is increasingly toxic to us and the other lives (plants and animals) we rely on for survival.

Like others have said, we aren't running out of oil anytime soon, so subsidizing alternative energy makes no sense at this point - especially something as ridiculous as 80 cents a kwh for solar electricity. As for CO2 emitions, there is no evidence they are harming anything.

How much fossil fuel is used to build and install a solar cell?

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

How much fossil fuel is used to build and install a solar cell?

ahoy JDJarvis!

a different question to ask would be "how much money have we spent on israel and our iraq adventure?".

at any rate...here be the cost of our gullibility;

The United States is in danger of losing ground in the burgeoning renewable energy industry the same way it lost dominance in the automobile industry, a Bryn Mawr economics professor told an audience during a forum at West Chester University on Tuesday.

“The economic race is going to be won by who makes the green technology of the future,” said Weiss. “China, Germany and Spain are far ahead of us in creating green energy technology.”

China is planning to export electric vehicles to California by the end of the year that will cost about $23,000.

Citing a Pew Center study, Weiss said jobs in the clean energy sector were already outpacing jobs in the traditional sector. Between 1998 and 2007, jobs in the clean energy field grew 9 percent compared to 3.7 percent in traditional areas.

'US losing ground in green energy race' - The Times Herald Business: Norristown, PA and Montgomery County (timesherald.com)

all them jobs that we're so hungry fer...and we're just ceding these jobs to asia with nary a whimper.

ye folks can stamp yer feet and put yer heads in the sand, but green energy and green jobs be whar the mother lode 'o jobs lay in the future...and if we americans don't want them jobs...well....imma sure the chinese are happy to hear of it.

alas...poor america. so bloated...so slow to react to the winds 'o change. i hates to say somethin' with sharp edges on it, fer its not me wont...but all ye folks who are willfully turnin' away from idear 'o renewable energy as the way 'o the future are each wieldin' a big shovel and helpin' to bury this lucrative job market in the United States.

It must have come as a surprise to a lot of people who read earlier this week about the new Pew Charitable Trusts study showing that China “invested $34.6 billion in a clean energy economy, nearly twice the United States’ total of $18.6 billion.”

At first, I'm sure people were puzzled when they scanned the appropriately harsh headlines, such as this one at CNN Money: China trouncing US in clean energy investing.

Nowhere is the competition as strong as in China, with its globally dominant manufacturing base and wide-ranging government policies promoting clean energy technology.

That reality has drawn significant American corporate investment in China. Applied Materials Inc., the Silicon Valley equipment maker for industries including semiconductor firms, last fall opened a huge solar research and development center in the western Chinese city of Xian. Mark Pinto, the company's chief technology officer who recently relocated to Beijing, said China's fast-growing solar energy market was the main draw.

China's advantages include hard-to-beat government incentives such as low-interest loans and subsidized land, but also a clear policy and strong demand from state-owned utilities that control energy capacity.

"We haven't seen this in high-tech manufacturing before," Pinto said in a recent interview.

Another home-grown company that is looking to take advantage of China's growing manufacturing capabilities in clean energy is Evergreen Solar Inc., a publicly traded company in Marlboro, Mass., that is shifting its final assembly of solar panels from its factory in Devens, Mass., to Wuhan in central China.

Clean Energy Jobs: the Real China Syndrome | Pete Altman's Blog | Switchboard, from NRDC

more jobs flowin' from the United States to China...thats just wonderful, aye.

ye all should put down yer angry miens and think fer a moment.

imma talkin' economics here, mateys....not global warmin'. ye may not give a good goddamn about renewable resources, but yer outta touch with the rest 'o the planet.

imma talkin' jobs.

aye.

- MeadHallPirate

*sighs peacefully*

ps - be that a rant? that almost felt rant-like, yarrrRRR!
satisfyin', it was.

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

ahoy JDJarvis!

a different question to ask would be "how much money have we spent on israel and our iraq adventure?".

at any rate...here be the cost of our gullibility;


'US losing ground in green energy race' - The Times Herald Business: Norristown, PA and Montgomery County (timesherald.com)

all them jobs that we're so hungry fer...and we're just ceding these jobs to asia with nary a whimper.

ye folks can stamp yer feet and put yer heads in the sand, but green energy and green jobs be whar the mother lode 'o jobs lay in the future...and if we americans don't want them jobs...well....imma sure the chinese are happy to hear of it.

alas...poor america. so bloated...so slow to react to the winds 'o change.

- MeadHallPirate

What the hell is the "green technology of the future" that we are all missing out on?
Windmills and solar panels?
It shouldn't surprise anybody that this stuff will be built where it can be built the cheapest.
No matter where the hardware is built, solar and wind power are government subsidized BS. They don't make economic sense.