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President
A perfect example of why companies cannot be trusted to handle their toxic waste without government supervision. To those of you who would gut the Environmental Protection Agency: would you want a toxic sludge resevoir in your back yard? In a world where the only thing that matters is profits, do you really trust corporations to do the right thing when it comes to your environment? Thank goodness we have regulations in the U.S. that would (hopefully) prevent this kind of disaster.
Toxic sludge spill could happen elsewhere, campaigners warn - CNN.com
Toxic sludge spill could happen elsewhere, campaigners warnBy Peter Wilkinson, CNN
October 12, 2010 5:45 a.m. EDT
(CNN) -- Shocking safety lapses exposed by the deadly Hungary toxic sludge spill could be repeated at thousands of industrial sites around the world unless regulations are tightened dramatically, campaigners have warned.
With eight people dead so far and hundreds of villagers evacuated near an aluminium plant at Ajka, 160 kilometers (100 miles) west of Budapest, experts said they believed the spillage of 1,000,000 cubic meters of toxic red sludge from a ruptured dam was a disaster waiting to happen.
The WWF on Monday published a photo taken, the environmental pressure group said, in June and showing one of the pools of sludge -- a by-product of the process to turn bauxite ore into aluminium oxide -- clearly leaking, indicating that the disaster three months later could have been avoided.
The aluminum company, MAL Co., said in a statement Saturday it had performed extensive maintenance work and renovations in the past decade and had followed safety regulations. The company was also now working to construct dams and defense lines in an attempt to minimize damage, it said.
On Monday, investigators arrested the company's chief executive Zoltan Bakonyi on charges of public endangerment and harming the environment.
Greenpeace said it would be some time before the full effects of the disaster were known. "We're very concerned by this. Regionally it's a huge disaster," Bernhard Obermayr, the environmental campaign group's campaigns director for central and eastern Europe, told CNN.
"Villages near the spillage won't recover from this. The sludge is highly toxic, containing arsenic and mercury, both of which can cause cancer and affect the body's nervous system. Those chemicals go into the ground water and will spread throughout the whole Danube region. At least 50 tons of arsenic have entered the eco-system we believe."
Obermayr added that there were thousands more toxic hot spots throughout central and eastern Europe, China, Africa and Latin America. "We've seen what can happen with a big disaster like Hungary, but globally, in emerging economies, disasters are happening all the time that are not reported. There is a constant leakage of dangerous chemicals from mining sites -- not just one big bang like this."
In the European Union, he said, industrial safety standards were high, but Hungary, as an EU accession state, was exempt for another 10 years, and was operating effectively under Soviet-era regulations. "There are lots of indications that this dam was leaking but the management didn't react to the troubles. The pressure on the dams was too high and it was not maintained properly. The owners of the site are asking for EU money, but they are rich enough to afford the cleanup of the site themselves."
An analyst agreed that safety standards at the plant in Hungary appeared to have been very poor. "There seems to have been no sort of risk analysis if the dam broke, as well as fundamental safety flaws there," said aluminium industry consultant David Harris.
"I'm used to working in the aluminium industry in Australia where red mud lakes (where the toxic sludge is stored) are sited hundreds of miles from the nearest populations. Nowhere else have I ever seen a red mud lagoon above a town, like it was in Hungary," Harris said.
"It's always been an irritant to me that Eastern Bloc countries joined the European Union but didn't have to comply with EU regulations. But if Hungary had wanted to join the EU and had to comply with regulations, much of its industry would have had to close down."
Vice President
In total agreement. I'm very thankful there are governmental regulatory organs in place that supervise these kinds of things - not only in my own country - the environment elsewhere is of equal value. I've never heard anyone say they want to gut ours, though. Why would anyone think it's worth increasing the risk of disasters such as this one?Originally Posted by Jefe
The intellectual journey that had began with Copernicus displacing humans from the centre of the Universe and continued with Darwin’s insistence that humans are merely modified monkeys has finally focused in on the very essence of life. And there was nothing special about it. The double helix is an elegant structure, but its message is downright prosaic: life is simply a matter of chemistry.
- James Watson
President
We often hear people complain about "too much regulation", and how it hurts companies. Over-regulation is often touted as one of the main reasons companies are moving their operations out of the U.S., which may be partially true. But when the alternative is little or no regulation, you get big toxic spills. I think there needs to be a middle ground somewhere.
President
What's the middle ground? Medium toxic spills that only kill a few Americans?
President
lol, no... just off the top of my head, one good idea might be to keep open pits full of toxic chemicals far, far away from populated areas. Don't keep an open pit full of poison on a hilltop, just above a town full of people.
I'm always concerned for the environment, but at the same time, I understand the need for industry, and the need to find some balance between the two.
Lieutenant Governor
Too much water will kill you. So...someone stating that too much water is bad....is simply saying "Too much" is...well....too much. But no one is arguing to completely get rid of water. Simple analogy...but appropriate.
President
Sure, there can be balance. The other option, IMHO, is to require the industry to process that waste so that there are no standing pits of poison anywhere in the world.
Actually, no, it makes no sense at all.
President
In a perfect world, there would be no poison or pollution.
Sure, there can be balance. The other option, IMHO, is to require the industry to process that waste so that there are no standing pits of poison anywhere in the world.
There are cleaner ways to produce aluminum, they just weren't required to follow those procedures in Hungary. And look what that gave them.
Proud Virginian Administrator!
A potential over population of Ninja Turtles.In a perfect world, there would be no poison or pollution.
There are cleaner ways to produce aluminum, they just weren't required to follow those procedures in Hungary. And look what that gave them.
"Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don't practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us -- and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along." -Carl Sagan
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President
Now see, we're probably safe from any such over population here in the U.S., because we have the EPA to prevent such things.
Secretary of State
A perfect example of why companies cannot be trusted to handle their toxic waste without government supervision. To those of you who would gut the Environmental Protection Agency: would you want a toxic sludge resevoir in your back yard? In a world where the only thing that matters is profits, do you really trust corporations to do the right thing when it comes to your environment? Thank goodness we have regulations in the U.S. that would (hopefully) prevent this kind of disaster.
Toxic sludge spill could happen elsewhere, campaigners warn - CNN.com
As far as I understand the problem in the hungarian case wasn´t having regulations (that are EU standards anyway) but to actually enforce them. Certain details about the case ( like the boss of the company in question beeing arrested rather seem to point to corruption and criminal neglicence as the reason for this.
President
"MAL co" spilled toxic waste and they arrested a villian named "Zoltan" for doing it?
This sounds like somthing out of a comic book.
Who arrested Zoltan? The Ninja Turtles, perhaps????
President
I'm just going from the article I posted:
IOW, Hungary was given a temporary waiver, and doesn't have to follow EU regulations (yet).In the European Union, he said, industrial safety standards were high, but Hungary, as an EU accession state, was exempt for another 10 years, and was operating effectively under Soviet-era regulations. "There are lots of indications that this dam was leaking but the management didn't react to the troubles. The pressure on the dams was too high and it was not maintained properly. The owners of the site are asking for EU money, but they are rich enough to afford the cleanup of the site themselves."
President
As opposed to the US? :rolleyes:In a perfect world, there would be no poison or pollution.
There are cleaner ways to produce aluminum, they just weren't required to follow those procedures in Hungary. And look what that gave them.
Here the govt. pays aluminium producers for their waste products, then they put it in our drinking water supply and tell us its good for our teeth. Seriously.
Last edited by hairballxavier; 10-12-2010 at 11:18 AM.
Moderator
Well... yeah. One thing to have 'em another to enforce 'em.
In the US... my biggest bitch on the EPA is the classic two layers of government... state and federal.
Remove the federal... let the states police this type of thing. Face it folks... California has different needs from Colorado and from Missouri.
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