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Thread: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

  1. #346
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    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    The power to pay the debts of the several United States is a specifically enumerated general power
    Specifically enumerated general power? LOL What Article, Section and Clause is this specifically enumerated? I found at Article I, Section 10, Clause 2

    "No State Shall ... make anything but gold and silver Coin a tender in payments of Debts.
    "No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."
    -- Patrick Henry

  2. #347
    danielpalos Guest

    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    I found this in Article 1, Section 8:

    Section 8
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

    to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

    but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

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    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    I found this in Article 1, Section 8:
    The USA is not the several States individually. In other words, Section 8 allows Congress to pay Debts of the federal government (the USA) not of the individual States.
    "No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."
    -- Patrick Henry

  4. #349
    danielpalos Guest

    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    The United States are the several United States of our republic and federal form of government.

    Thus;

    Section 8
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

    to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

    but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

  5. #350
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    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    The United States are the several United States of our republic and federal form of government.

    Thus;
    Wow! Are you unable to tell the difference between yourself and the collective family you belong to? Are you unable to tell the difference between a principle and an agent? Article I of the US Constitution empowers the legislature of the proposed super-State contract to be approved by various States. The Constitution did not empower the States but bring into existence an entity to represent the States. What do you think the 9th & 10 Amendments did if there was no difference between the States and the USA?
    "No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."
    -- Patrick Henry

  6. #351
    danielpalos Guest

    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    Can you explain your understanding of our form of federal Statism better? Why do you believe the several States of our Union do not constitute the United States of America, even if they delegated some of their traditional police powers to a general government of that Union?

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    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    Can you explain your understanding of our form of federal Statism better? Why do you believe the several States of our Union do not constitute the United States of America, even if they delegated some of their traditional police powers to a general government of that Union?
    No. Can you admit that you are different than your family and a principle is different than the agent representing him?

    If you and your brother (several States) do something that does not mean your family (USA) has done something, right?
    "No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."
    -- Patrick Henry

  8. #353
    danielpalos Guest

    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    The point is that me being different from my siblings doesn't mean we are not part of the same family. In that same manner, the several (brother and sister) States are still part of the same Union (of that "family"). The word "delegated" has a significant meaning in our social Contract.

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    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    The point is that me being different from my siblings doesn't mean we are not part of the same family. In that same manner, the several (brother and sister) States are still part of the same Union (of that "family"). The word "delegated" has a significant meaning in our social Contract.
    Is this your way of acknowledging the difference?

    The federal government has the delegated power to pay the debts the federal government incurs. Paying the debts of several States is not a power delegated to the USA. You and your brother getting into debt does not mean your family has to pay the debt.
    "No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."
    -- Patrick Henry

  10. #355
    danielpalos Guest

    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    I agree with you that the general government of the Union is delegated the power "to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;".

    Here is a line of reasoning that concurs with my opinion:

    Article 4, Section 4
    The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
    Allowing the "bankruptcy" of a State of our Union is not an option.

    Here is a basis for payment of State debts:

    Article 6.

    All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
    Simply delegating an unqualified power to pay the debts of the several United States should be enough to establish that line of reasoning and point of view.

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    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    Simply delegating an unqualified power to pay the debts of the several United States should be enough to establish that line of reasoning and point of view.
    No. Again, you are confusing a single United States and the debt it has, e.g., the federal government with the several States and the debt THEY have, e..g, State governments.
    "No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."
    -- Patrick Henry

  12. #357
    danielpalos Guest

    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    You may have missed the point: the general government of the Union is delegated the power "to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;". Are you claiming that any given State should not have recourse to the provisions they delegated to the general government for their general welfare and common defense, or their debts?

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    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    You may have missed the point: the general government of the Union is delegated the power "to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;". Are you claiming that any given State should not have recourse to the provisions they delegated to the general government for their general welfare and common defense, or their debts?
    I am denying your claim the the United States is the same as a State (or several States).

    Please explain what this has to do with Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax.
    "No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."
    -- Patrick Henry

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    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    "No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."
    -- Patrick Henry

  15. #360
    danielpalos Guest

    Re: Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLocke View Post
    I am denying your claim the the United States is the same as a State (or several States).

    Please explain what this has to do with Ways to Tell Global Warming Is A Hoax.
    I don't disagree that our republic is not a State in the traditional sense; but a Union of States bound together by a general government for their mutual welfare and common defense.

    Providing for the general welfare is a specifically delegated power. Improving infrastructure can ameliorate many effects of climate changes.

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