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Thread: Space Junk

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    Mrs. M's Avatar
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    Space Junk

    My late husband was definitely on to something when he wrote a fictional story in 1986 about aliens being pissed at us because of all the trash we've left in space!

    WASHINGTON -- Space junk has made such a mess of Earth's orbit that experts say we may need to finally think about cleaning it up.
    space-junk.jpgView full sizeNASA photo via APA computer-generated graphic shows images of objects in Earth's orbit that are currently being tracked.

    That may mean vacuuming up debris with weird space technology -- cosmic versions of nets, magnets and giant umbrellas, according to the chairman of an expert panel that issued a new report on the problem Thursday.

    There are 22,000 objects in orbit that are big enough for officials on the ground to track and countless more smaller ones that could do damage to human-carrying spaceships and valuable satellites. The International Space Station has to move out of the way of debris from time to time.

    "We've lost control of the environment," said retired NASA senior scientist Donald Kessler, who headed the National Academy of Sciences report.

    Since the space age began 54 years ago, civilization has littered the area just above Earth's atmosphere with leftover boosters and other parts that come off during launches, as well as old satellites. When scientists noticed that this could be a problem, they came up with agreements to limit new space junk and those plans had been working.

    Those agreements are intended to make sure what is sent into orbit eventually falls back to Earth and burns up.

    But two events in the past four years -- a 2007 Chinese anti-satellite weapon test and a 2009 crash-in-orbit of two satellites -- put so much new junk in space that everything changed, the report said. The widely criticized Chinese test used a missile to smash an aging weather satellite into 150,000 pieces of debris larger than four-tenths of an inch (1 centimeter) and 3,118 pieces can be tracked by radar on the ground, the report said.

    "Those two single events doubled the amount of fragments in Earth orbit and completely wiped out what we had done in the last 25 years," Kessler said.

    All that junk that means something has to be done, "which means you have to look at cleaning space," said Kessler.

    The study only briefly mentions the cleanup possibility, raising technical, legal and diplomatic hurdles. But it refers to a report earlier this year by a Defense Department science think-tank that outlines all sorts of unusual techniques. The report by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency is called "Catcher's Mitt" and it mentions harpoons, nets, tethers, magnets and even a giant dish or umbrella-shaped device that would sweep up tiny pieces of debris.

    While the new report does not recommend using the technology, Kessler said it is needed. He likes one company's idea of a satellite that is armed with nets that could be sprung on wayward junk. Attached to the net is an electromagnetic tether that could either pull the junk down to a point where it would burn up harmlessly or boost it to safer orbit.

    NASA officials said they are examining the study.

    The report is from the National Research Council, a branch of the National Academy of Sciences, which is an independent organization chartered by Congress to advise the government on science.

    By Seth Borenstein, AP science writer
    Space junk littering Earth's orbit may finally need to be cleaned up | NOLA.com





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    C-B-M is offline Secretary of Defense
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    Re: Space Junk

    This is one of those things where people are led to believe that it's literally a sea of junk up there and you can't even move without being pummeled by trash raining upon your body. Sorta like the ozone "hole" where it was like the ozone was this thick shield and suddenly there was this hole and cosmic rays lit the Earth on fire under the hole and people ran around on fire under it, screaming and yelling.

    It's not that I don't care about space junk. It's that it's like five or six hundred things down on my list of things that I care about. It's way below what's on television tonight. This has been a problem for years ...what has the impact been on anyone again? Zero.

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    Re: Space Junk

    Quote Originally Posted by C-B-M View Post
    This is one of those things where people are led to believe that it's literally a sea of junk up there and you can't even move without being pummeled by trash raining upon your body. Sorta like the ozone "hole" where it was like the ozone was this thick shield and suddenly there was this hole and cosmic rays lit the Earth on fire under the hole and people ran around on fire under it, screaming and yelling.

    It's not that I don't care about space junk. It's that it's like five or six hundred things down on my list of things that I care about. It's way below what's on television tonight. This has been a problem for years ...what has the impact been on anyone again? Zero.
    So what do we do? Wait until it really is a sea of junk up there and you can't move without being pummeled? What's wrong with taking care of it before it becomes a major problem?

    There are 22,000 objects in orbit that are big enough for officials on the ground to track and countless more smaller ones that could do damage to human-carrying spaceships and valuable satellites. The International Space Station has to move out of the way of debris from time to time.





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    Re: Space Junk

    Hmmmm....I began to think that things were getting out of hand when I was instructed to dust the top of the molding around doorways in the house. This, however, seems like it may be taking things to a whole new level (really!).

    OTOH, it would be kind of cool to build a gigantic space based Shop-Vac....with a remote control.

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    Re: Space Junk

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. M View Post
    So what do we do? Wait until it really is a sea of junk up there and you can't move without being pummeled? What's wrong with taking care of it before it becomes a major problem?
    Because we don't need to take care of it. In other words, let's look at this objectively. We have junk floating around in space. Does it impact you on Earth? No. Does it impact people in space? OK, apparently they've had to move their space station a few times. So based on that, we're going to spend a few billion dollars to send ANOTHER vehicle up there? Why? We're not even sending manned space shuttles up any more. It's completely unnecessary. That's inert material, too. It has no effect. Plus, it's space. We could launch nuclear material into space and nobody would care. Seriously. Like, if I shot a nuclear bomb into space and it just kept going to the end of the universe, nobody will care.

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    Re: Space Junk

    Quote Originally Posted by lutherf View Post
    OTOH, it would be kind of cool to build a gigantic space based Shop-Vac....with a remote control.


    Really, this a problem best solved with subtle changes in the way satellites are put together. After a couple of decades the junk will return to Earth on its own.

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    Re: Space Junk

    Space junk is a serious problem that has to be planned for and will have an increased cost to telecommunications. The dullards aren't going to care until their satellite T.V. doesn't work or their GPS doesn't function any more.

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    Re: Space Junk

    Quote Originally Posted by Commodore View Post

    Really, this a problem best solved with subtle changes in the way satellites are put together. After a couple of decades the junk will return to Earth on its own.
    You mean like this piece here?


    Image courtesy NASA
    A main propellant tank of a Delta 2 launch vehicle which landed in Georgetown, Texas, on Jan. 22, 1997.

    HowStuffWorks "How Space Junk Works"





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    Re: Space Junk

    Also when Challenger burst into flames on re-entry, a piece of that made it into a Texas lake as well. Only after the droughts did we realize when the thing literally dried up and showed this white round thing that kind of looked like a rusted blob. ?Not to make light of this or anything, but historic space exploration(al) debris, generally tends to find its way to Texas.

    (First person to see Speak make a joke about "illegal aliens" entering Texas gets to make him drink Jager Bombs by force).

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    Re: Space Junk

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Not to make light of this or anything, but historic space exploration(al) debris, generally tends to find its way to Texas.
    It's the largest of the lower 48 states and closer to the equator, only serves to reason it's going to collect more space debris than say Delaware.

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    Re: Space Junk

    Being responsible and dealing with the problem pro-actively removes and reduces an immense number of difficult problems later. What the Chinese did was incredibly irresponsible for everyone else's satellite safety as well as their own. Prevention is definitely the key, and the cheapest way to deal with the problem.

    Here's a picture of a space shuttle window that took a hit from an extremely small piece of debris.

    http://www.universetoday.com/84482/k...om-meteoroids/
    Last edited by Disillusioned_1; 09-05-2011 at 09:10 PM.
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    Re: Space Junk

    Quote Originally Posted by JdJarvis
    It's the largest of the lower 48 states and closer to the equator, only serves to reason it's going to collect more space debris than say Delaware.
    I dunno, there's the whole of Mexico and the rest of the entire continental 48/Canada/Carribean but it always manages to find a way to Texas. I can understand though, that a lot of it tends to be headed to Johnson anyway, so i guess its in the relative proximity of where it should be.

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    Re: Space Junk

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    I dunno, there's the whole of Mexico and the rest of the entire continental 48/Canada/Carribean but it always manages to find a way to Texas. I can understand though, that a lot of it tends to be headed to Johnson anyway, so i guess its in the relative proximity of where it should be.
    Or it could just be that Texas sucks!

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    Re: Space Junk

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. M View Post
    You mean like this piece here?


    Image courtesy NASA
    A main propellant tank of a Delta 2 launch vehicle which landed in Georgetown, Texas, on Jan. 22, 1997.

    HowStuffWorks "How Space Junk Works"
    Yup. Though most of the objects up there are not aerodynamic enough to come down in dangerous chunks like that. And theres a better than 7 in 10 chance it won't come down in a populated area.

    If your going to launch stuff, you need to figure out in advance how your going to get it down when it reaches the end of its life.

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    Re: Space Junk

    Quote Originally Posted by C-B-M View Post
    This has been a problem for years ...what has the impact been on anyone again? Zero.
    I remember Atlantis was hit by space debris a couple of years ago.

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