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Reply With QuoteMeadHallPirate:
I can't find where one of these beasts have actually been built
Molten salt reactor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Have you any other info to confirm or deny this?
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2011 USPOL Most Valuable Poster (MVP)
ahoy mateys,
i was talkin' to the honorable RRAHH on JPN's energy thread and i found meself gettin' worked up o'er somethin' that our nation seems to be missin' the boat on; Thorium power. i copied bits 'o me response to him and wanted to carve out a separate thread (i don't know if imma breakin' any USPO rules by doin' this).
should the United States Government stop givin' favorable tax incentives to the fossil fuel, solar and wind industry and instead level the playin' field so other options can perhaps compete? or should the United States instead try to emmulate our asian successors and direct government fundin' to what seems to be the energy 'o the future?
or should we be content to just burn our coal and wait fer the free market to work its magic at some undetermined point down the road whilst China races ahead with its "government controlled" magic?
http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/thin...r-reactor/6205Thorium is an attractive option in that the material is more abundant than uranium and all of it can be used in a nuclear reactor without risk of a meltdown. It also doesn’t churn out eye-brow raising materials like plutonium. And as an added bonus, thorium can be used in molten salt reactors, which is capable of consuming nuclear waste.
While the U.S. has done little thorium research since abandoning the idea a few decades ago, India has taken the lead in developing the technology. The South Asian country operates the world’s first thorium-fueled reactor and has set a goal of meeting about a third of its electricity demand through thorium-based technology by 2050. And just last week, China announced a project to develop a thorium-fueled nuclear reactor, a major step toward transforming public’s not-so-green perception of the rising industrial nation.
The reaction of U.S. nuclear supporters is best described as frustration over what they felt was a sort of American complacency for not jumping all over the technology.
this be the silver bullet to our woes, matey...the key to tomorrow. god bless asia, i say!
Clean Nuclear Is Bad For America - Congressman Adam SmithThe Chinese do not envision themselves making plastic happy meal toys forever. They envision that they will replace America as the world technology leader. Indeed, with 6-million PhD graduates annually they have more geniuses than America has citizens.
Now, the Chinese are building a Thorium nuclear power plant. This plant will be:
1.1,000 times more efficient.
2.Produce 1,000 times less waste.
3.And, it cannot melt down: it stops by itself if there is a problem.
"What's not to love?" asked Kirk Sorensen, a NASA rocket scientist in Huntsville, Ala., who is earning his doctorate in nuclear engineering.
"The amount of thorium it would take to power my whole life is the size of a marble that would fit in my hand," Sorensen said.
"The amount of coal that would power my life would bury my yard to 30 or 40 feet. The United States has enough Thorium to power the country safely for thousands of years."
now, i don't know much 'bout congressman Smith, but i want'm to be our president....right now.
meanwhile, our POTUS and the rest 'o congress are still dickin' around with huge tax exemptions fer fossil fuel, the technology 'o yesteryear. i wonder how much government monies are spent on forwardin' this tech 'o tomorrow? as a conservative, i'd assume yer answer would be "not a dime".
so sad.
*sniff*
me own hope is that the Chinese can spearhead this effort and perhaps share this technology (or at least allow us to purchase thar services to help out thar friends, the Americans) with us.
i wonder what Bill Gates thinks 'o all this?
» DOE Collaborates With China on Thorium Reactors Pike ResearchChina, which plans to build dozens of new reactors over the next few decades in an effort to wean itself off of coal-fired power plants, is exploring a range of advanced nuclear technologies, including molten-salt thorium reactors (also known as “liquid fuel thorium reactors,” or LFTRs, pronounced “lifters”) as well as fast neutron reactors.
Bill Gates, a backer of nuclear technology startup TerraPower, has publicly spoken of his intention to work with Chinese researchers to help develop next-generation nuclear reactors. China currently gets less than 2% of its power from nuclear plants.
in america, i don't hear or see a single congressperson or pundit extollin' the great hope that a thorium plant would offer fer our future...i just see a bunch 'o knuckleheads sayin' "drill baby drill", or barbarians frothin' at the mouth to blow the tops off 'o mountaintops so we can stripmine fer more coal. 'tis really kinda pathetic, and it would be funny if i didn't happen to live here.
aye.
- MeadHallPirate
Last edited by MeadHallPirate; 07-09-2012 at 08:44 AM.
Moderator
MeadHallPirate:
I can't find where one of these beasts have actually been built
Molten salt reactor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Have you any other info to confirm or deny this?
2011 USPOL Most Valuable Poster (MVP)
ahoy Tsquare,Originally Posted by tsquare
i'll try to look into it later, matey. i been curious 'bout thorium power fer years now, and have been waitin' fer the first plant to be built. i always hoped that our nation would be at the head 'o the fleet on this development, and am sad that we aren't.
i gotta lift anchor and be headin' off to work, 'tis almost noon.
i hate gettin' to work after lunch, i enjoy me lunch break.
update, aye: i found this bit, not built yet, but they have lifted anchor and put to sea -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...-nuclear-plantIndia has announced plans for a prototype nuclear power plant that uses an innovative "safer" fuel.
Officials are currently selecting a site for the reactor, which would be the first of its kind, using thorium for the bulk of its fuel instead of uranium – the fuel for conventional reactors. They plan to have the plant up and running by the end of the decade.
the United States has huge reserves 'o thorium (as does India and i think South Africa), matey. ye know how much thorium thar be in Saudi Arabia? relatively speakin...none.
aye.
- MeadHallPirate
Last edited by MeadHallPirate; 07-09-2012 at 09:14 AM.
Moderator
It's hell to be the boss, isn't it?
Vice President
Hey, it's great! We can export our thorium! And continue to use fossil fuels. In the same way we exported our jobs.
I just heard a democrat on Cspan talking about how china is investing their money in infastructure and more importantly research. With the nation of china working to surpass america, it looks like they have the right idea in how to do that. But then again, they put their nation above the profits of business. Imagine that!! They are copying what we used to do here! They have a model to emulate, while we threw that model out the door for the sake of maxing out the profits of a few.
The only way it seems that we will push the thorium research and building those energy producing power plants is for big oil to get involved. But that might cut off their fossil fuel profits, and perhaps they don't own enough thorium producing mines. Since business interests drive our gov't policy, we will just let china and india take care of this. Afterall, they are looking to the future instead of short term profits. And that is the difference IMO.
Fossil fuel producers worst nightmare is for their product to be replaced. This would explain why the USA is sitting on her hands. They were told to do so.
"Like every other good thing in this world, leisure and culture have to be paid for. Fortunately, however, it is not the leisured and the cultured who have to pay." Aldous Huxley.
Secretary of State
I thought that this topic had come up before. Hey if it works, it's reliable, it's safe, why not?
If a man were behind four months on his mortgage and was talking to you about his plans to build an addition on his home you would think him daft and delusional. But in Washington, ignoring a current crisis to discuss grand dreams is called “boldness” and “vision.”
Secretary of State
Agreed, I see little reason not to at least explore the option.
- Frustrated Independent
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
"Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people.” - Penn Jillette amazingly enough, and I agree.
2011 USPOL Most Valuable Poster (MVP)
ahoy Erik,
this be what puzzles me, me friend. correct me if imma wrong, but thar be somethin' so laconic and casual in yer approval 'o this source 'o power.
"hey if it works, it's reliable, it's safe, why not?"
i can't make no sense 'o why ye seem so breezy in yer comment.
energy policy drives our multi trillion dollar commitment in the middle east. how we deal with energy hath a direct impact on how we can preserve our environment. it has a huge, huge multiplier effect on our economy, at almost every juncture.
this be the future, and we're watchin' while asia just forges onward into it, whilst we cling to our fossil fuel subsidies and our antiquated ways.
we be the last vendor that makes horseshoes, at the dawn 'o the Model T.
- MeadHallPirate
Last edited by MeadHallPirate; 07-09-2012 at 09:40 PM.
Secretary of State
I'm not hung up on any alternative sources for energy. All it has to be is safe, reliable, and cost effective. If it turns out that windmills are it or solar cells, or collecting farts from cows, fine by me, I really don't care. The alternative has to stand on it's own two feet, i.e. be cost effective in the competitive market and it shouldn't take 20 years of government funded life support to reach that level of competitiveness.
Hybrid cars are nice, but are little more than a technological way point to hydrogen powered transportation, just as soon as the hydrogen extraction process is cost and energy efficient and cost competitive.
Would I like to see the US be the forefront of the new Thorium reactor technology? Sure. There's a market for it, again, provided that it can stand on it's own 2 feet, and we could make some money selling that technology to the rest of the world.
Am I heart broken that it is likely that China will be this technological leader? Well, I'm a little disappointed, but I figure that we'll get the next one. We can't win them all, all of the time. In fact, I'd be worried if we started to do that. It'd mean that we'd be missing something else really big, wouldn't it? Or the other guys are so much more super secretive or something. Neither would be a good sign.
If a man were behind four months on his mortgage and was talking to you about his plans to build an addition on his home you would think him daft and delusional. But in Washington, ignoring a current crisis to discuss grand dreams is called “boldness” and “vision.”
County Council Member
It may be that the reason that there are no thorium reactors is that there is no thorium refining industry. It seems ill suited to making bombs so the military hasn't paid to develop the industry like they did with uranium and plutonium.
If someone would show that they can use a high-efficiency thorium reactor to power a flying laser instead of using a chemical reaction, then the military would pay the freight for developing the technology that the private sector can’t afford. The Chinese government spends big bucks developing technology that will make their economy more competitive. The US only spends big bucks on developing technology that makes the US more deadly.
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