U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum - Environmental Issues http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/ Environment, Global Warming, Pollution, Natural Resources, Alternative Energy en Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:18:58 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.USPoliticsOnline.com/images/misc/rss.jpg U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum - Environmental Issues http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/ Hadley Institute Hacked http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/57339-hadley-institute-hacked.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:31:28 GMT Breaking news...

Hadley Hack Update - Authenticity Gets Some Confirmation | .....Aaron's EnvironMental Corner.....

I'm going to preface this with, once more, I'M NOT AN EXPERT, JUST SOMEONE ASKING QUESTIONS, DON'T HURT ME!:scared:

I heard about this on the radio on the way into town this morning. Granted, the linked article is obviously fairly partisan, but the points made are interesting ones. Is he right about the big fish in AGW theory being implicated by this, and if so, what are the likely ramifications? ]]> Environmental Issues turnitup5000db http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/57339-hadley-institute-hacked.html ACE held responsible for damages http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/57317-ace-held-responsible-damages.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:18:07 GMT First let me say that this is NOT about New Orleans as a whole but rather St. Bernard Parish and the Lower Ninth Ward. MRGO (Mississippi River Gulf Outlet) has been a thorn in the side of SE Louisiana for years and it was finally closed this... First let me say that this is NOT about New Orleans as a whole but rather St. Bernard Parish and the Lower Ninth Ward.
MRGO (Mississippi River Gulf Outlet) has been a thorn in the side of SE Louisiana for years and it was finally closed this year. It was originally built as a shortcut for ships but seldom saw more than a ship a day, and because it was poorly maintained, erosion tripled the width over the years. During Katrina, MRGO actually provided a means for the storm surge that contributed to the levee breaches in some areas, something some have said for years could happen. Now, a judge has decided that ACE is responsible and has awarded $700,000 in damages to several which has opened the door for others in their own lawsuits against the government. All I can say is it's about damn time!

Corps' operation of MR-GO doomed homes in St. Bernard, Lower 9th Ward, judge rules | Hurricane News and Storm Tracking - - NOLA.com ]]> Environmental Issues Mrs. M http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/57317-ace-held-responsible-damages.html <![CDATA[Al Gore: Earth's Interior 'Extremely Hot, Several Million Degrees']]> http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/57276-al-gore-earths-interior-extremely-hot-several-million-degrees.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:09:25 GMT
Quote:
Al Gore: Earth's Interior 'Extremely Hot, Several Million Degrees'

For several years as uneducated sycophants in the media gushed and fawned over every utterance from former Vice President Al Gore, NewsBusters has informed readers of just how absurd the junk science he's peddling really is.

Last Thursday, NBC "Tonight Show" viewers got a perfect example of how the Nobel Laureate basically makes things up, and that his poor grades in college were quite an indicator of just how little he understands about science.

*snip*

O'BRIEN: ...to create energy, and it sounds to me like an evil plan by Lex Luthor to defeat Superman. Can you, can you tell me, is this a viable solution, geothermal energy?

GORE: It definitely is, and it's a relatively new one. People think about geothermal energy - when they think about it at all - in terms of the hot water bubbling up in some places, but two kilometers or so down in most places there are these incredibly hot rocks, 'cause the interior of the earth is extremely hot, several million degrees, and the crust of the earth is hot ...

On Tuesday, National Review's John Derbyshire noted:

The geothermal gradient is usually quoted as 25-50 degrees Celsius per mile of depth in normal terrain (not, e.g., in the crater of Kilauea). Two kilometers down, therefore, (that's a mile and a quarter if you're not as science-y as Al) you'll have an average gain of 30-60 degrees - exploitable for things like home heating, though not hot enough to make a nice pot of tea. The temperature at the earth's core, 4,000 miles down, is usually quoted as 5,000 degrees Celsius, though these guys claim it's much less, while some contrarian geophysicists have posted claims up to 9,000 degrees. The temperature at the surface of the Sun is around 6,000 degrees Celsius, while at the center, where nuclear fusion is going on bigtime, things get up over 10 million degrees.

If the temperature anywhere inside the earth was "several million degrees," we'd be a star.
MORE

He hasn't let facts get in his way so far. Why should he start now? ]]> Environmental Issues lug-nut http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/57276-al-gore-earths-interior-extremely-hot-several-million-degrees.html Immense Islands of Trash in the Oceans http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/57192-immense-islands-trash-oceans.html Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:37:32 GMT Imagine a pile of trash double the size of the state of Texas or maybe as large as the continental United States. You don't have to imagine. It's really there. It's known as Great Pacific Garbage Patch.

Quote:
Light bulbs, bottle caps, toothbrushes, Popsicle sticks and tiny pieces of plastic, each the size of a grain of rice, inhabit the Pacific garbage patch, an area of widely dispersed trash that doubles in size every decade and is now believed to be roughly twice the size of Texas. But one research organization estimates that the garbage now actually pervades the Pacific, though most of it is caught in what oceanographers call a gyre like this one — an area of heavy currents and slack winds that keep the trash swirling in a giant whirlpool.
Now for the good news.
Quote:
Scientists say the garbage patch is just one of five that may be caught in giant gyres scattered around the world’s oceans.


Now aren't you glad we found water on the moon. When the oceans are covered in trash you'll be able to buy nice, clean and clear moon water. ]]> Environmental Issues CDavidNeely http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/57192-immense-islands-trash-oceans.html Science and Advocacy http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/57109-science-advocacy.html Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:20:34 GMT I thought I would pass along a not too ancient article in Conservation Biology that speaks to a dilemma with any research-related job. http://faculty.washington.edu/skalski/classes/QERM597/papers_xtra/Brussard%20and%20Tulll.pdf Which tact,... I thought I would pass along a not too ancient article in Conservation Biology that speaks to a dilemma with any research-related job.

http://faculty.washington.edu/skalsk...nd%20Tulll.pdf

Which tact, if you could decide, do you wish that scientists would take? ]]> Environmental Issues Kijana http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/57109-science-advocacy.html Collapse of all Commercially Exploited Fish by Mid-Century http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/57064-collapse-all-commercially-exploited-fish-mid-century.html Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:07:51 GMT ---Quote--- The authors point out that even at current fish consumption levels, global fisheries are in severe crisis as demand outstrips supply and declining stocks are being diverted from local markets to affluent markets, with serious...
Quote:
The authors point out that even at current fish consumption levels, global fisheries are in severe crisis as demand outstrips supply and declining stocks are being diverted from local markets to affluent markets, with serious consequences for the food security of poorer countries and coastal communities. Global stocks have been declining since the late 1980s and there have been more than 100 cases of marine extinctions.

"These trends imply the collapse of all commercially exploited stocks by mid-century," state the authors. "Yet the dire status of fisheries resources is largely unrecognized by the public, who are both encouraged to eat more fish and are misled into believing we live in a sea of plenty."
Fish Consumption Guidelines Not Environmentally Sustainable, Canadian Experts Say

Overfishing and environmental contamination are going to lead to the destruction of fish as a food stuff. Aquaculture still relies on wild fish in the form of fish meal and fish oil so without commercial fish supplies those will fail as well. Just another in the continuing trend for the unrestrained selfishness of humans to endanger their own long term survival. As a side note to this issue the fish meal and fish oil is also crucial to land farming since it is used as feed for chickens and pigs. ]]> Environmental Issues CDavidNeely http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/57064-collapse-all-commercially-exploited-fish-mid-century.html The global wealth redistributive politics of AGW http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56725-global-wealth-redistributive-politics-agw.html Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:28:56 GMT Some nuggets of text that I've found over time that show or suggest to me that AGW is a way for global wealth redistribution until a convergence of incomes and national GDP's is achieved:


Quote:
Working with a fifty year time horizon, Yohe and Van Engel (2004) have suggested that the trade off need not be quite so stark over the long term. They observe that the very transfers of international capital that would promote convergence over the near term between low and high income countries could also work to spread the incidence of achieving any sustainability-motivated climate target more evenly across both types of countries over the long term. However, Manne and Richels (1992 and 1997) added even more complication to the mix by showing that certain emissions and concentrations targets would be impossible to achieve in their modelling framework (which is calibrated to achieve significant convergence in terms of per capita income across regions with minimal contraction for the developed countries) even if enormously stringent mitigation were undertaken immediately. Other modelling frameworks, like the Nordhaus and Boyer (2001) RICE model, can achieve these targets more easily, but their baseline trajectories of economic growth worldwide are far less robust and their underlying rates of convergence are less compelling.

http://www.ipcc-wg2.gov/AR4/FOD/Ch20_FOD.pdf


Quote:
" in the coming decades the world expects to see substantial economic development including, by 2030, some US$16 trillion investment in energy infrastructure (IEA 2003). Much ofthis will be in developing countries as they develop with a view to enjoying the standard of living of today’s industrialized countries."

http://ces.iisc.ernet.in/envis/sdev/...ay_forward.pdf

Quote:
Weyant concluded that the SRES scenarios are probably correct when climate change or its impacts are of interest, whether PPP or MER was used. However there could be significant differences for mitigation cost projections depending on the method of GDP convergence.

http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/supporting-ma...ng-2005-01.pdf
Quote:
Market mechanisms for reducing global greenhouse gas emissions and other environmental goals provide additional revenue streams to developing countries, and contribute to the convergence of incomes between developing and industrialized regions.

http://www.tellus.org/documents/Great_Transition.pdf
Quote:
"Specifically, the CDM can contribute to a developing country’s sustainable development objectives through:
• Transfer of technology and financial resources;
• Sustainable ways of energy production;
• Increasing energy efficiency & conservation;
• Poverty alleviation through income and employment generation; and

http://uneprisoe.org/CDMCapacityDev/CDMintro.pdf

Here's a paper with Obama's John P. Holdren listed as a lead author:
Quote:

Box 1.1. Description of IPCC Scenario B2

The IPCC’s B2 scenario family is based on projections from 1990 to 2100 of moderate population growth (growing from 5.3 billion to 10.4 billion people), intermediate levels of economic development (world gross domestic product (GDP) grows by a factor of 11), and moderate, but relatively diverse, technological change. The B2 storyline is oriented toward environmental protection and social equity (that is, assuming a tendency to a more even distribution of per capita income, quantified by dropping the ratio of income in developed to developing countries from 16 to 3 over the 21st century), and emphasizes “local solutions to economic, social, and environmental sustainability” (Nakicenovic and Swart, 2000)."

http://www.globalproblems-globalsolu...navoidable.pdf
We must not let any kind of cap-and-trade scheme pass. And I've got more related links I can post if anybody wants to read them.

Kramer ]]> Environmental Issues kramer http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56725-global-wealth-redistributive-politics-agw.html Brown: 50 Days to Save the World From Global Warming http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56721-brown-50-days-save-world-global-warming.html Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:37:28 GMT More climate change fearmongering.

Quote:
The UK faces a "catastrophe" of floods, droughts and killer heatwaves if world leaders fail to agree a deal on climate change, the prime minister has warned.

Gordon Brown said negotiators had 50 days to save the world from global warming and break the "impasse".

He told the Major Economies Forum in London, which brings together 17 of the world's biggest greenhouse gas-emitting countries, there was "no plan B".

World delegations meet in Copenhagen in December for talks on a new treaty.

BBC
Uh huh. Yeah, right. 50 days. We have a month and a half to save the world from global warming, even though we in the USA have had record breaking cold temperatures already this fall. If we wait three months we're all dead, but 50 days we can save the world. 60 days? Armageddon. 40 days? Xanadu.

It's embarrassing that we have heads of state spouting this crap. Thankfully Gordon Brown won't survive the next election in the UK. Unfortunately, there are several more asshats like him around the world who still have influence. ]]> Environmental Issues SamInTheSouth http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56721-brown-50-days-save-world-global-warming.html Why environmentalists will never get along. http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56720-why-environmentalists-will-never-get-along.html Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:41:29 GMT I call your attention to a very blunt statement muttered by Richard Branson last week.

“If we could come up with a geoengineering answer to this problem, then Copenhagen wouldn’t be necessary,” he said. “We could carry on flying our planes and driving our cars.”

Branson on the Power of Biofuels and Elders - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com

The environmental philosophy that I most closely associate with is horrified by statements like this. The last thing we want is some tech fix that allows this culture to persist as if there are no deeper problems with the way we go about business on this planet.

But then there are mainstream environmentalists, or greens.... they would jump on any perceived fix that allows business as usual - be it cap & trade or some sort of geoengineering fix.

The two groups do not and will never agree, they will never organize together, and they will spend tremendous amounts of time & energy fighting each other.

This is why the left can't organize effectively like the right.

Andrew ]]> Environmental Issues Andrewl http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56720-why-environmentalists-will-never-get-along.html <![CDATA[It's the end of the world.]]> http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56671-its-end-world.html Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:24:45 GMT Global warming will leave the Arctic Ocean ice-free during the summer within 20 years, raising sea levels and harming wildlife such as seals and polar bears, a leading British polar scientist said on Thursday.... Global warming will leave the Arctic Ocean ice-free during the summer within 20 years, raising sea levels and harming wildlife such as seals and polar bears, a leading British polar scientist said on Thursday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the article
"The data supports the new consensus view — based on seasonal variation of ice extent and thickness, changes in temperatures, winds and especially ice composition — that the Arctic will be ice-free in summer within about 20 years," Wadhams said in a statement. "Much of the decrease will be happening within 10 years."
The skeptic (or conspiracy theorist if you prefer) in me says they're trying to influence Copenhagen. ]]> Environmental Issues Porras http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56671-its-end-world.html What happened to global warming ? http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56575-what-happened-global-warming.html Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:54:51 GMT from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8299079.stm) yes, the oil company owned BBC even admits its no longer warming. ---Quote--- his headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that the warmest year... from the BBC

yes, the oil company owned BBC even admits its no longer warming.


Quote:
his headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that the warmest year recorded globally was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.

But it is true. For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in global temperatures.

And our climate models did not forecast it, even though man-made carbon dioxide, the gas thought to be responsible for warming our planet, has continued to rise.

So what on Earth is going on?

Climate change sceptics, who passionately and consistently argue that man's influence on our climate is overstated, say they saw it coming.

They argue that there are natural cycles, over which we have no control, that dictate how warm the planet is. But what is the evidence for this?

During the last few decades of the 20th Century, our planet did warm quickly.
The Sun (BBC)
Recent research has ruled out solar influences on temperature increases

Sceptics argue that the warming we observed was down to the energy from the Sun increasing. After all 98% of the Earth's warmth comes from the Sun.

But research conducted two years ago, and published by the Royal Society, seemed to rule out solar influences.

The scientists' main approach was simple: to look at solar output and cosmic ray intensity over the last 30-40 years, and compare those trends with the graph for global average surface temperature.

And the results were clear. "Warming in the last 20 to 40 years can't have been caused by solar activity," said Dr Piers Forster from Leeds University, a leading contributor to this year's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

But one solar scientist Piers Corbyn from Weatheraction, a company specialising in long range weather forecasting, disagrees.

He claims that solar charged particles impact us far more than is currently accepted, so much so he says that they are almost entirely responsible for what happens to global temperatures.

He is so excited by what he has discovered that he plans to tell the international scientific community at a conference in London at the end of the month.

If proved correct, this could revolutionise the whole subject.
]]> Environmental Issues daddio http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56575-what-happened-global-warming.html More proof that global warming is a myth and that the alarmist ar liers http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56506-more-proof-global-warming-myth-alarmist-ar-liers.html Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:28:27 GMT An inconvenient truce as green | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/an-inconvenient-truce-as-green/story-e6frfhqf-1225783524958) The above link points out how global warming alarmist liers manipulate data and omit data altogether to... An inconvenient truce as green | Herald Sun

The above link points out how global warming alarmist liers manipulate data and omit data altogether to perpetuate the hysteria and fear. I guess when there is an underlying politcal crusade people will do anything. These liers are anti-man. They want humans off the planet. ]]> Environmental Issues sinebar http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56506-more-proof-global-warming-myth-alarmist-ar-liers.html Trouble in Denmark ? http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56450-trouble-denmark.html Sat, 03 Oct 2009 23:43:58 GMT read

sounds like Han is a little concerned that Kyoto II in Denmark might not go so well. well good. you "warmer" guys have failed miserably at selling your snake oil. you have had years to address this and no appreciable change ahs occurred so you have only yourselves to blame.

cant say I'm disappointed, duh for those of you who have noted mu opposition here and even before that.

any hope you have is treating the world as though they were from Missouri.

show us in no uncertain terms. ]]> Environmental Issues daddio http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/environmental-issues/56450-trouble-denmark.html