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Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

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  • Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

    Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says - Businessweek

    Feb. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Maybe, as the novelist F. Scott Fitzgerald suggested, the rich really are different. They’re more likely to behave badly, according to seven experiments that weighed the ethics of hundreds of people.

    The “upper class,” as defined by the study, were more likely to break the law while driving, take candy from children, lie in negotiation, cheat to increase their odds of winning a prize and endorse unethical behavior at work, researchers reported today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    Taken together, the experiments suggest at least some wealthier people “perceive greed as positive and beneficial,” probably as a result of education, personal independence and the resources they have to deal with potentially negative consequences, the authors wrote.

    While the tests measured only “minor infractions,” that factor made the results, “even more surprising,” said Paul Piff, a Ph.D. candidate in psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, and a study author.
    (more at link above)

    This is an interesting result, rich people are more likely to cheat even to get minor monetary rewards. Don't forget that rich people pretty much run the country through the influence of Wall Street and campaign financing. What if it can be scientifically proven that letting the rich control everything is a really bad idea because the rich tend to be more unethical?
    Liberals fail to recognize that modern conservatives are direct evidence of the failure of the public education system.


  • #2
    Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

    Hilarious.

    From the article -

    One experiment invited 195 adults recruited using Craigslist to play a game in which a computer “rolled dice” for a chance to win a $50 gift certificate. The numbers each participant rolled were the same; anyone self reporting a total higher than 12 was lying about their score. Those in wealthier classes were found to be more likely to fib, Piff said.


    “A $50 prize is a measly sum to people who make $250,000 a year,” he said in a telephone interview. “So why are they more inclined to cheat? For a person with lower socioeconomic status, that $50 would get you more, and the risks are small.”
    So they tell these people that they get a $50 dollar gift certificate if they roll a 12 but that nobody is going to check? Who wouldn't say that they rolled a 12? It's so stupid that it could only be designed to weed out absolute morons. I mean, seriously, there is no consequence for being untruthful and there is a benefit for doing so so why not lie?

    Another test asked 108 adults found through Amazon.com Inc.’s work-recruiting website Mechanical Turk to assume the role of an employer negotiating a salary with someone seeking long-term employment. They were told several things about the job, including that it would shortly be eliminated. Upper-class individuals were more likely not to mention to the job-seeker the impermanence of the position, the research found.
    I could sure use some more details on this because the way the interview is conducted would make a huge difference in how and when I disclosed such a thing to an applicant.

    ?


    • #3
      Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

      Originally posted by lutherf View Post
      Hilarious.

      From the article -



      So they tell these people that they get a $50 dollar gift certificate if they roll a 12 but that nobody is going to check? Who wouldn't say that they rolled a 12? It's so stupid that it could only be designed to weed out absolute morons. I mean, seriously, there is no consequence for being untruthful and there is a benefit for doing so so why not lie?



      I could sure use some more details on this because the way the interview is conducted would make a huge difference in how and when I disclosed such a thing to an applicant.
      I might mention that the rich folk driving their cars and cutting people / generally being rude, also paid a homeless man .10 cent hr to shout obscenities out the passenger window.
      If we open up our borders we could suppress wages of middle class jobs Alan Greenspan
      We need to suppress the wage levels of the skilled. We need to suppress wages in comparison to the lesser skilled - Alan Greenspan

      ?


      • #4
        Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

        Originally posted by michael h View Post
        I might mention that the rich folk driving their cars and cutting people / generally being rude, also paid a homeless man .10 cent hr to shout obscenities out the passenger window.
        The car thing...yeah....that's something else but I don't know how much of it can really be determined to be based on economic status.

        Down the street from my office there is one of those health food supermarkets that attracts a lot of seniors. Many of these folks drive land boats so they would, based only on that, appear to be wealthy. They are also some freaking scary drivers. I mean, if you're in the crosswalk between the front door of the store and the parking lot and one of those bluehairs is heading for a handicapped spot you had damned well better get to hustling because there isn't anything that will stop them from getting that spot! Oh yeah..my point...just because these folks are driving a Caddy doesn't mean that they are wealthy by any stretch. For many of them that car is the single biggest asset they own.

        ?


        • #5
          Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

          Why do you think they call it Middle Class morality? Don't lie, don't cheat, behave as if God was watching you....
          It's a behavior standard that applies only to the middle class.
          The lower class doesn't have any use for morality, and neither does the upper class.

          ?


          • #6
            Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

            Originally posted by lutherf View Post
            The car thing...yeah....that's something else but I don't know how much of it can really be determined to be based on economic status.

            Down the street from my office there is one of those health food supermarkets that attracts a lot of seniors. Many of these folks drive land boats so they would, based only on that, appear to be wealthy. They are also some freaking scary drivers. I mean, if you're in the crosswalk between the front door of the store and the parking lot and one of those bluehairs is heading for a handicapped spot you had damned well better get to hustling because there isn't anything that will stop them from getting that spot! Oh yeah..my point...just because these folks are driving a Caddy doesn't mean that they are wealthy by any stretch. For many of them that car is the single biggest asset they own.
            I hadn't stopped to think of that because my stereo system was always worth more then my car. I might mention the young crowd that buys those boats when the elderly trade in for a new one. I loved my New Yorker ... power locking windows ... that I could lock and make my friends vomit after a little chili.
            If we open up our borders we could suppress wages of middle class jobs Alan Greenspan
            We need to suppress the wage levels of the skilled. We need to suppress wages in comparison to the lesser skilled - Alan Greenspan

            ?


            • #7
              Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

              Originally posted by michael h View Post
              I hadn't stopped to think of that because my stereo system was always worth more then my car. I might mention the young crowd that buys those boats when the elderly trade in for a new one. I loved my New Yorker ... power locking windows ... that I could lock and make my friends vomit after a little chili.
              Just because I have a really morbid sense of curiosity....why the hell would you lock the windows so that someone that needed to puke had to do so inside your car? I mean, I could see that if you were driving their car because they were too drunk or something but your car...why the hell would you do that?

              ?


              • #8
                Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

                I posted that same article in a recent thread to make a point.

                Here is the actual study for those who are curious:

                https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...JjODIwYzZlNTFm
                Florida is the Mecca of rednecks. No offense to Mecca. Stephen Colbert

                ?


                • #9
                  Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

                  Originally posted by Formaldehyde View Post
                  I posted that same article in a recent thread to make a point.

                  Here is the actual study for those who are curious:

                  https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...JjODIwYzZlNTFm
                  Wow!

                  Here's some quality scientific method - From page 6 of the study, Study 3, Measure of unethical decision-making - Please, anybody, explain to me what is being measured? How the hell can you relate any of that to economic class?

                  The pictures of the pedestrian crosswalk sure look to me like the crosswalk was signal controlled (note the yellow box on the pole right at the crosswalk). Now I don't know what the CA Code actually says but if some mope is standing on the sidewalk at a controlled crosswalk and the light isn't flashing and their foot isn't in the road then for all I know they are waiting for the ice cream truck so I really don't have a reason to stop.

                  I don't have time to go through the whole thing but the whole thing but based on what I saw the study is best suited for substitute ass wipe.

                  ?


                  • #10
                    Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

                    Yes. I'm sure the authors of the study are completely incompetent, as well as everybody associated with the peer-reviewed scientific publication where it appeared.
                    Florida is the Mecca of rednecks. No offense to Mecca. Stephen Colbert

                    ?


                    • #11
                      Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

                      Originally posted by lutherf View Post
                      I don't have time to go through the whole thing but the whole thing but based on what I saw the study is best suited for substitute ass wipe.
                      I felt somewhat the same, although they at least have enough different studies with different biases that it does seem to indicate a morality trend. I would like to see more 'clean' studies done that had less ambiguities.

                      For example I've seen guys who make $15-$20/hour driving EXTREMELY nice cars simply because they blow their entire paycheck on useless shit like a fancy car. They're certainly not rich but they certainly are assholes and the study would seem to incorrectly associate them as being rich.

                      On the other hand to address your earlier point ... the fact that you think its ok to lie about a dice roll that noone will check is EXACTLY THE POINT of the study. They found that people of poorer backgrounds were less likely to lie about their dice rolls. Why shouldn't someone lie? Well because its considered UNETHICAL to lie. That's the only reason. The reason TO lie would of course be to get $50 that you might not otherwise get.
                      Liberals fail to recognize that modern conservatives are direct evidence of the failure of the public education system.

                      ?


                      • #12
                        Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

                        It is a matter of statistics. While there will be some driving late model Bimmers who are not affluent, the majority of them will be.

                        As vehicles are reliable indicators of a persons social rank and wealth (15), we used observers codes of vehicle status (make, age, and appearance) to index drivers social class.
                        Last edited by Formaldehyde; 03-02-2012, 05:05 PM.
                        Florida is the Mecca of rednecks. No offense to Mecca. Stephen Colbert

                        ?


                        • #13
                          Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

                          Originally posted by Disillusioned_1 View Post
                          I felt somewhat the same, although they at least have enough different studies with different biases that it does seem to indicate a morality trend. I would like to see more 'clean' studies done that had less ambiguities.

                          For example I've seen guys who make $15-$20/hour driving EXTREMELY nice cars simply because they blow their entire paycheck on useless shit like a fancy car. They're certainly not rich but they certainly are assholes and the study would seem to incorrectly associate them as being rich.

                          On the other hand to address your earlier point ... the fact that you think its ok to lie about a dice roll that noone will check is EXACTLY THE POINT of the study. They found that people of poorer backgrounds were less likely to lie about their dice rolls. Why shouldn't someone lie? Well because its considered UNETHICAL to lie. That's the only reason. The reason TO lie would of course be to get $50 that you might not otherwise get.
                          Well, Dis, there are lies and there are damned lies. I may be taken to task for this but I dare say that an absolute and unwavering adherence to the "truth" is neither necessary nor desirable in life. For a purely academic discussion of ethics it might be something to contemplate but outside of that laboratory it's irrelevant since it's an impossible standard to hold someone to.

                          Most people operate on a risk/reward basis. They evaluate their situation and generally choose that action for which they perceive the least amount of risk for the greatest reward. They might then temper that decision with some consideration of the ethics of the situation but if there is no risk involved then why take that next step?

                          It's suggested that the dice experiment was run in isolation. Under that circumstance there was no risk whatsoever for any chosen behavior (aside from stealing the dice). If it were run in such a way that participants could observe one another then I suspect that the results would be much different. I mean, if one person was "busted" for lying then I suspect that the results would look much different. The same applies if observers saw a participant get away with the lie.

                          From my perspective, I would be given a benefit of $50 for lying (if necessary) and no reward for telling the truth (unless I rolled a 12). In fact, the only way that I would end up with a negative outcome would be if I were honest in my answer and, to my thinking, that's just plain stupid.

                          ?


                          • #14
                            Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

                            Originally posted by Disillusioned_1 View Post
                            What if it can be scientifically proven that letting the rich control everything is a really bad idea because the rich tend to be more unethical?
                            Well, as they say, "Money talks, bullshit walks."

                            I really don't see how you're going to set up a system that won't be dominated by the rich. Besides, the behavior observed in these studies is extraordinarily trivial. You've heard of the "white lie" of course? Anyone knows that small lies are . . . ("excused" is not the word) . . . forgotten, while big lies are serious affairs.

                            If you could show that rich people had a collective tendency to lie about big things more often than everyone else, then perhaps I would care, but as I said, this just seems so trivial.

                            ((And, when we're talking about running the country, it's usually rich vs. rich, so if these are the rules they play by, who the fuck cares? As long as there is equal opportunity and social mobility (both upwards for achievers and downwards for losers) it would seem to me that the system is still mostly fair.))
                            "Congress is so strange. A man gets up to speak and says nothing. Nobody listens - and then everybody disagrees."

                            ?


                            • #15
                              Re: Wealthier People More Likely To Lie or Cheat, Study Says

                              Originally posted by Haplo View Post
                              If you could show that rich people had a collective tendency to lie about big things more often than everyone else, then perhaps I would care, but as I said, this just seems so trivial.
                              If a rich person will lie to win $50, don't you think they would be even more likely to lie to get $1,000,000?
                              Liberals fail to recognize that modern conservatives are direct evidence of the failure of the public education system.

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