LUAP:

I can only tell you what I believe, I cannot speak for an entire movement.

I believe that every population group is entitled to self-determination. I believe that people of all collectives religious, racial, ethnic etc...have the right to lands of their own and to prosper in their own lands as single unified people as they see fit. I happen to identify myself as a collective tribalist for lack of a better term with Euro-Caucasoid people.

In my perfect world in a white nationalist state we would still trade with and have friendly relations with other nations from Africa to Asia.

I see the European peoples as a strong 'race' that has created great civilisations, conquered and tamed the worst of lands and built empires on hell holes! Other 'ethnicities' have done similar while others have failed to do so.

As far as holding animosity toward other ethnicities? I am not in love with people from the third world but the people I hate more then any other are the white liberals, so called conservatives etc...who created the migration policies I loathe to begin with...

That sounds about right! I have no desire to conquer other peoples but merely preserve the lineage, culture, heritage and Anglo-Saxon/Euro nature of my home state.

While I see a lot of respectable traditions, accomplishments and contributions from the white man...

The Euro-Caucasoid peoples have crossed seas, harnessed rivers, carved mountains, tamed deserts, and colonized the most barren icefields. They have been responsible for inventing many of the revolutionary wonders that have made our lives easier. They have discovered countless medical advances, incredible applications, scientific progress, etc. Its members have included such greats as Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Homer, Tacitus, Julius Ceaser, William the Conqueror, Marco Polo, Washington, Jefferson, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Magellan, Columbus, Cabot, Edison, GrahamBell, Pasteur, Leeuwenhoek, Mendel, Darwin, Newton, Galileo, Watt, Ford, Luther, Devinci, Poe, Tennyson, and thousands upon thousands of other notable achievers.

Read up on it...I got most of the above from the following books after learning about these books on a website with a similar quote to the one seen above:

1) Waddell, L. A. The Makers of Civilization, 1929, Angriff Press, Hollywood, CA

2) Weisman, Charles A. The Origins of Race and Civilization, 1990, SFA

Yet legions of third worlders want to live with us! Many will risk life and limb just to live in the least of our nations. Go figure!

I don't classify myself as an anti racist, because for me race is irrelevant.

I'm also not anti white, because it doesn't make sense for me to be.

I don't know where I fit into all these classifications - but I don't think it really matters.

Such terms are really meaningless to any but those who have nothing better to do with their time but to look for differences in people to make them feel better about themselves.

Well put.

I find that people that spend time dissecting differences just for the sake of exposing them tend to have some personal problems with themselves. However, I am not demeaning the practice of scientists who study actual genetic differences between races of humans. I believe such information is valid and important.

Please.

There's nothing ad-hominem about recognizing the fact that you obviously know absolutely nothing about genetics or taxonomy. If you had any points, perhaps you could state them a bit more clearly so that I can address them? Mostly what you post is so far out of the realm of reality that it's difficult to parse out what you think is a biological or scientific basis for what you're stating, and what is pure racist hyperbole.

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

If only everyone carried this knowledge.

Like I mentioned, I hadn’t followed the entire thread, but it seems you were catching a lot of flack on previous pages. What you express here, though, doesn’t seem racist or unreasonable. But what are the limits to your idea of self-determination? Take this hypothetical situation: there is such a thing as a white nationalist state, and there are other nationalist nations for each so-called race. An Asian/Black/Arabic/etc. family wishes to permanently move to the White nation for reasons of their own; are they allowed? I suppose a more encompassing question would be: what about the people who do not wish to be a part of a racial or religious nationalist state – people who would rather mingle with all other groups of people and still have a place to call “home?”

Also, I’m unfamiliar with the term “collective tribalist.” I could Wiki it or start looking on the internet, but that may not provide what your definition of the term means.

Yes, Europeans have done great things and created wonderful ideas; but this is subjective. One could look to any culture and find things worthy of admiration and other things deserving of scorn; I cannot hold anything against you, of course, for holding a preference toward your own heritage in these things.

What migration policies do you disdain?

Then I thoroughly admire you. I see nothing wrong with trying to preserve tradition. You may be very interested in the movement in Chiapas, Mexico, then; the Zapatista National Liberation Army has been “dying to live,” as they say. They are the indigenous peoples of Mexico – tribes and ethnicities that date back to the ancient Mayan and Aztec civilizations, I believe – and they are fighting against the Mexican government that has suppressed them and their identity. They are merely fighting to be recognized, to be allowed to live as they wish, to maintain a culture rich in history and lore.

Subcomandante Marcos is one of the leaders of the movement – he was once, apparently, just a “spokesman,” a fighter in the “war for the word,” as he has written. But in other writings he has referred to himself as the “supreme commander.” Anyway, here is an article from him, The Fourth World War. In it, he describes that phenomenon of neoliberalism, and its war against humanity.

I hold a lot of agreement with Marcos – he is a poet, a guerrilla, an individual with dignity and pride toward indigenous peoples everywhere. I recommend his book, our word is our weapon. At first, I was skeptical about his teachings; he emphasized difference, he advocated a sense of isolation, in my opinion. My first impression of his writings was that he was something of a racist; but then I came to comprehend his feelings. I think that is what is occurring on this forum – people react to your beliefs in such a way that they think you are a supremacist. I believe it is because of the “culture” of a America – I was born and raised here, and I have no heritage that I feel I can call my own. I know I am part Irish, part Dutch – but I have almost no knowledge of any of that culture. Many Americans are culturally neutered, in a sense; cut off from their collective pasts. The United States of America, I believe, is a type of dry run for the war on humanity, on culture, on difference described by Marcos in the above article.

That is quite the list. It is very debatable, though; I have the book, which I have not read, “Guns, Germs, and Steel,” by Jared(?) Diamond. It seems to be a very scientific text and I had trouble getting through the beginning (so much, in fact, I never did), but it seems to present the hypothesis that Europe has led world history for as long as it did because of geographic location and not any certain “racial traits.” No matter the reason, though, it is not very debatable that white people are the creators that of that difficult term, “the West,” with all of its positive and negative connotations.

This is difficult to address. One could propose that the only reason people try to enter the West, or try to become “Westernized,” is because they live in such abject poverty, which is arguably due in no small part to the West itself. Still, I don’t see how anyone could blame you for having pride in your heritage – that is a fundamental privilege of being human.


To the rest: I see a lot of sentiments in here that hint that culture is not important. Of course, this is not said bluntly, but two examples after Frank’s post:

And

One of the greatest things about humankind is the differences. Do you believe that human culture should all be the same? That indigenous practices should be forsaken? Just because one values difference, or holds pride with ones people, does not mean one is racist or advocating genocide. Is conformity really that appealing to you? Do you guys envision a one-world government in which everyone is essentially the same? I highly recommend that article that I posted for Frank, found above.

__________________
No man is an island...
Each man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in Mankind.
And therefore, never send to know
For whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
—John Donne

No, cultural differences are in my opinion one of a few things that make humans a higher class than say, Chimpanzees. But I believe there is quite a difference in being proud of your heritage and sniping at others. I don't see Frank as the latter per se, I was simply responding to what daisym was talking about (though I don't know if she was talking about Frank specifically.)

This in itself in an ad hominem. You are accusing me of ignorance without addressing and challenging any issue that would prove your accusation. You simply judge me ignorant and then walk away while offering nothing more!

Hold on! This is funny! You have accused me of ignorance without understanding my points that would lead you to make such an accusation?

How can you determine whether I am ignorant or not without knowing what my arguments and claims are in the first place?

Ahhh so you do not know what I believe, you do not know what my arguments are to begin with and you find what I say to be difficult to understand but you have judge me ignorant without telling me exactly why I am so?

And people wonder why I do not want to debate this issue anymore around here? Lets face it Mr. Jockey you are not interested in discussing my beliefs or even debating an issue. You merely want to put me down. I thought you were suppose to be a 'bleeding heart liberal?' What happened to all of that tolerance you folks blabber about?

People like myself who have a dissenting view on immigration, race and multiculturalism tend to receive such flack. I consider it a part of the job. I believe in what I do because I feel it is right! I respect the rights of other people to disagree but I am not going to back down.

An established white nationalist state would not permit Asian/Black/Arabic/etc
to enter the nation! I would re-establish the Immigration Restriction Act of 1901 under the original provisions and not the revised British commanded form of it...

In contrast we would cease all interference in Muslim lands and would establish fair and honest trade with Asian and African nations.

The policies that allow third world people into the nation! Allow me to offer an analogy that I feel is somewhat apt for the situation...

The following will be included on a future blog entry of mine...

I have been asked numerous times why multiracialism and multiracial migration is a bad thing? The answer is obvious to me that the concept of multiracialism poses a survival to the majority creative populations that built the lands by foreign third world invasion via immigration and asylum policies.

The ignorance of multiculturalists never ceases to amazes me at times! In the west we have legions of scientists who warn that northern migrating African honeybees could eventually settle in North America and wipe out the European honeybees population by infiltrating their hives and breeding the European honeybees out of existence.

Many scientists and government bodies also warn us about introducing foreign florae and fish into foreign lands, marshes, lakes etc… as these alien elements could pose a threat to the delicate nature of the ecosystem and prosperity of the indigenous or assimilated florae and fish. This is largely done via aggression of the new species, the competition for food sources etc…

Yet how many people tell these scientists that bees are bees, plants are plants, fish are fish and that diversity is their strength hence introduce the foreign elements into the new ecosystem? If we can apply such standards of constructive division to the wildlife kingdom how come we can not apply it to humanity when similar problems exist when introducing foreign alien cultural elements into the west!?

The problem is multiracialism is bad for humans for the same reason multiracialism is bad when Africanised honeybees enter territories inhabited by European honey bees. Multiracialism is bad for human in the same way adding exotic piranha fish into a lake full of bass is bad for the bass of the lake.

Do you see where I am going...

Let me know when you are finished the book and I can offer you some rebuttals from scholars in my camp...

I should look that up! Sounds like an interesting topic of study and thank you for the compliment.

Or possibly the poverty in their nations could be due to their own inability to compete with the west and their incompetance? Look at the Irish, they recently were listed on the Mercer Index as the best nation in the world to live.

Those people faced horrible levels of persecution historically and were essentially lowly servents of a greater empire but they survived and over came their hardships.

I will be the first to admit that I do indeed criticise several population groups including my own so I do dump on folks quite a bit!

So much typing. So little said.

Typical of you and your bretheren, Frank.

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Let me take a wild guess that 'liberal' tolerance of yours only extends to those who agree with you correct? Well you know liberals! They will tolerate the opinion of others as long as they approve of what they say!

How large do you envision this the white nationalist state? I’m something of an anarchist, and I imagine a more stable, perfect world to be composed of much smaller states with direct democracy. Undoubtedly, some states would find the decision to keep other races out, while others would invite some or all races in. Racists would be free to isolate themselves, as would individuals of your disposition (I’m not implying you’re a racist), and multiculturalists would be free to mingle with all other humans. Is this somewhat similar to what you would like to see for your white nationalist state?

Yes, I understand, I think. By allowing people to migrate into Europe from Africa, the Middle East, etc., the European states are putting the indigenous of Europe at risk of “extinction.” It is hard to say if that is a truly fair comparison, though; human beings do not function like bees or florae. I return to Chiapas, here: much emphasis from Marcos is placed on “the Word,” which allows us to communicate with dead men, as he says. And I agree. Human language allows traditions and cultures to survive – the indigenous in Mexico are an example of this. Even after five hundred years of being exposed to “foreign alien cultural elements,” they have maintained ancient practices and beliefs. Certainly, they have been marginalized, and are currently fighting against a multinational force for their right to exist, but their example gives hope to those of us who fear for the extinction of diversity.

Could be a while; I’m working on Marcos’ book now, and I only have a few more weeks before I’m into school, where I’ll have much less time than I do.

Have you read that article? It is not too long, but I for one had to take my time with it, for Marcos has a unique way of looking at the world.

That could be as well. I was just presenting an opposing viewpoint; I am not knowledgeable in this type of discussion about why the West has been at the fore of civilization and why so many others have been delegated to the “Third World.” I’m immediately hesitant to offer any support to “scientific” determinations of racial superiority, though; in the developed world, science seems to offer a crown of credibility even if it is mistaken at some crucial level we cannot see. I do not care much about scientific facts and findings that proclaim one race to be superior to another, to be more intelligent than another, to be “more human” than another; it does not take much for someone to use this “intellectual” justification in violent and genocidal acts, which I cannot and never will condone morally. I'm not saying you do, but in your association with white nationalists, you likely have encountered people of this sort, right?

Ahh, I see what you are saying. I agree that there is a huge difference between having pride in ancestry and holding intolerance toward others. I mistook your words to mean that you supported a lack of culture, my fault.

__________________
No man is an island...
Each man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in Mankind.
And therefore, never send to know
For whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
—John Donne

Nope. I'll tolerate anything except mistruth. The basis of white supremacists' belief structure is nothing but lies, so I don't tolerate it.

I've got no problem with people having and expressing different opinions, however.

Nice try.

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Pramjockey, if you read the exchange between Frank and I, you may realize that Frank doesn't seem to be a "white supremacist" as far as the KKK and Nazis go, which seems to be your perception.

__________________
No man is an island...
Each man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in Mankind.
And therefore, never send to know
For whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
—John Donne

I'd disagree. White separatist. White supremacist. Same thing.

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears