Minor point clarification here. There has been a second crime committed with an automatic weapon recently (within the last 5 years). IIRC, it was murder, but again the criminal was.....a police officer using a department issued weapon.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

A true liberal, by definition of the word liberal, isn't going to care if people own a gun or not.

Personally, I think that "gun control" should focus on 1) Providing education about guns to cut down on gun related accidental deaths 2) Criminalizing the idiotic storage of guns (this of course would take a ton of explaining to make it effective, but I think it would be the best way to keep people on both sides of the aisle [relatively] happy).

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Yes, the little green fist up there is a symbol of Earth First! No, I'm not an eco-terrorist, nor do I agree with eco-terrorism...I just thought it looked cool.

Completely with you on both points.

It is never an "accident" when a small child comes across a loaded firearm and shoots someone (or themself). It is a result of the criminally culpable negligence of the person who placed the firearm in a position where the child could access it.

Do we not already have laws in place to address criminal negligence? Yes, we do.

I fail to see a need for any additional laws.

I also fail to see how any additional penalties would make a damn bit of difference. Those who are already too stupid to take proper steps to prevent a child from getting to a gun arent going to miraculously START doing the right thing just because we created some new law.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Not to sidetrack things, but this part of your post brought a pretty big smile to my face.

One could easily say that much of what conservatives propose is a nanny-state type government as well. Basically, both the liberal and conservatives will happily jump at the opportunity to limit personal freedoms as long as it fits their agenda.

The War On Drugs is quite conservative, censoring 'immoral' media is conservative, legislating gay marriage (saying who can and can't marry) is conservative, banning flag burning (what you can do with your own property) is conservative, banning abortion is conservative, etc., etc. No matter what your views are on these issues, they all represent the conservatives attempting to get the government to force their will on the people, for the people's own good.

I do agree that liberals have their countless amounts of 'nanny state' legislation as well and I would be crazy to argue that they didn't. Just wanted to point out that today, much of whats proposed by any side seems to come down to limiting personal freedom.

That said, I'm personally opposed to any and all government interference in our lives. No matter if it's a liberal or a conservative pushing it, if it comes down to the government doing more, I am very much against it.

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"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

I agree with you entirely - and i find BOTH sides to be reprehensible in their attitudes.

This thread deals with the "liberal" fixation on gun control though, so it is them I addressed.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

And by all means, carry on, good sir.

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"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

Well as a Card Carrying Libertarian(Ok they didn't actually send me a card), I find EricOKCs definition of a modern liberal to be quite accurate.

I'm perfectly comfortable with those labels being applied to those programs and I support them all with the proper guidelines.

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During the journey we commonly forget its goal. Almost every profession is chosen as a means to an end but continued as an end in itself. Forgetting our objectives is the most frequent act of stupidity.
-Friedrich Nietzsche, The Wanderer and his Shadow

All good socialists have villas in Southern France. That's not the point.
-Eurosocialist

I also find it ironic that right-wingers often don't mind that things like the Patriot Act take certain rights, but mind that their gun rights are restricted, when in theory that right is partly there to help protect against the abuses of other rights.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

From what I've seen, most of the people who feel a need to have guns in case of eventually need for revolution were unhappy about the patriot act.

__________________
During the journey we commonly forget its goal. Almost every profession is chosen as a means to an end but continued as an end in itself. Forgetting our objectives is the most frequent act of stupidity.
-Friedrich Nietzsche, The Wanderer and his Shadow

All good socialists have villas in Southern France. That's not the point.
-Eurosocialist

This definition seems to contradict yours MattLarson. I think it's pretty universally-accepted. For instance, the AK47 or M16 are assault rifles, the M14 or M21 aren't.

"Assault Rifle", when used to vilify the guns owned by civilians in this country, is being used to describe semi-automatic firearms.

While you are correct that a genuine assault rifle is selective fire, the guns available to 99% of the shooting public are not.

But the gun ban crowd would have you believe they were, because they never let the truth get in the way of their agenda.

Matt

The M 14 I trained with was capable of 700 rounds per minute. That's an assault weapon. Pre-vietnam era m14 were semi auto. Even if you purchase that type, it is easily converted.

If your government is out to get you, all the weaponry in the world won't help ya.

And btw, the Poles and Ruskies managed to bring down their totalitarian governments without weapons. Amazing that.

Oddly enough, the one western country that does seem to be marching down the path to authoritarian government is the one that rules over the supposedly most heavily armed people on earth. Guns are useless against the political advance of 'warm and fuzzy despotism'. Indeed, the people with the arms seem to be the ones empowering the authoritarian trend in politics.

Talk about fucking irony.