For some to use the lines "you would raise your kids to be cherry pickers??" in such an insolent tone that is at the same time supposed to defend them is laughable. So what if a kid picks cherries? Doing menial labor is one of the best ways to build work ethic and character, in my humble opinion. Of course one is not going to "raise" someone to pick cherries, but that kind of work does have value in the scheme of growing up.

I have done menial work before and it does a lot to you but you walk away knowing the value of hard work. It's a good stepping stone and way to pay your dues, and most of America doesn't get that anymore for two reasons, 1. Low wages thanks to this problem, which creates a lack of incentive to go for the jobs and 2. the by-product, a lazy minded society WRT this work. Fast food jobs are "hard"? Ha, hardly. Go do some menial labor and tell me how hard that work is in comparison.

To fix this problem does not mean to just bring in more illegal laborers. If one honestly believes that, I have to question his or her problem solving skills. To fix it, you must give the Americans their incentive back to work these jobs. That way, society improves itself (rather than watching others act it out) and sovereignty is protected.

Certainly not me. Outsourcing is one issue I agree with Democrats on all the way.

I can't compare robbing a bank to traveling far away to find work so your kids don't go hungry.

Think of how much it would suck to be so desperate for a job that you had to travel to Canada, sneak in because they wouldn't let you come legally, get a job doing some manual labor because it's all there was for you, live in squalor so you can send money home to your wife and kids whom you miss terribly the whole time, get treated like shit by the natives because you don't speak their language very well (ok it has to be Quebec). Your wife finally joins you in Quebec with your other kids, you live there now, for a few years, working, living and you have another baby! Suddenly INS tracks you down and are arrested, put in jail with your family, then sent to Washington DC with the clothes on your back, you aren't allowed to go home and get anything, you have to leave, even if you have no money.

This is what happens. It happened to some sweet older ladies that I worked with in NYC in the garment district. They handcuffed them, lined them up, crying, and took them away. It was a nightmare. Very scary.

And then there is the story of the 16 year old girl, she came here when she was 2. She didn't even know she was illegal until she tried to get a job. She was deported to a country she had never been to since she was a baby, she didn't know anyone and she was left there, dangerously stranded.

Is that what our country does to people? I know we have entered an era of cruelty and cold heartedness, but do we really want to be this way?

Walk a mile in another man's shoes. As Jesus taught.

I never said I don't empathize with them, Sam. However, the law is the law. I don't oppose emergency services or anything for when they are sick or hurt, but I do oppose allowing emotional appeal to overrule the law and overruling the use of logic to solve problems. Your analogy also does not involve an anchor baby, which is in context to what I was talking about.

I don't put major blame on the illegals anyways. That blame goes to employers. However, the anchor baby concept is being abused in this particular regard. So if the child is born here, yet the parents are illegal -- the illegals have put their children in quite a spot. The Govt. did none of it, so it does not follow we are a "cold hearted" government, let alone country. The govt did not create this situation, therefore it is not ours to resolve for them. These people are simply not seeing far enough ahead to the end of their actions, which to me is the real tragedy.

The story of the 16 year old...Whose fault is it that she didn't know she was illegal? Ours? if so, interesting. Her parents never told her? How responsible is that? What kind of message are they sending in that regard? Link me to this story, if you will please.

I heard an interview with her on PBS a few weeks ago. I don't have a link, sorry.

I know, I put the anchor baby in my story but I didn't use it.

It's cool. It's unfortunate we can't see eye on this. It's funny, the main thing we have in common (outside of Pearl Jam, heh) is our qualms with Bush, yet they are completely different qualms.

Anywho, I think employers paying below minimum wage is wrong on it's face. Add that to the fact that they are doing it with illegals - I say make it a felony. If employers weren't so emboldened and doing this to begin with, people wouldn't become emboldened enough to risk their families lives and well-being in such a way to come here.
PS - Whoops, you did use an anchor baby.

Emptypepsi you can be my voice, I no longer need to speak!

In both cases, an illegal act is committed for monetary gain. The amount is different, that is all.Who is at fault for getting married and having kids? If you can't afford them, don't get them! That action is inexcusable. He chose to come to the country to live in the squalor. He chose to leave the kids behind. Canada in no way owes anything to him. And don't expect the natives to treat you well after you disregarded their laws.This immigrant has to be exceptionally retarded. He broke the law to pay for one set of kids, and now he gets more! Gee, everytime I bump into a door in the dark, I immediately run into again on purpose because I didn't learn the first time! Please feel sorry for me. Too bad. The north hollywood bank robbers got it substantially worse. Or should we have let them go and keep the cash if we apprehended them? Oh boohoo! Gee, maybe next time they shouldn't break the law. What do you think? You know, I don't want to get shot by police, so I don't break into the police station to steal their weapons to sell on the black market. What do you know? I'm infinitely more intelligent than those illegals, apparently.That's what happens when shitty parents have unprotected sex. Save your hate for the illegals that put her in the situation.There is nothing bad about punishing illegals. The fact that an illegal is still in the country means he is continually violating the law. It's like if I broke into a bank vault and stayed there, totally surprised when the security guards were impolite to me.

Sorry, sam. That entire post is bullshit. The illegals CHOSE to illegally enter the country. The US does not owe anything to anyone outside of the country. There is no reason the US government, which is funded by US citizens, should in any way help or accept those who enter the country from the outside illegally. They are making the choice to immigrate illegally.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Haha, no way. We all need to speak up for our side on this issue. Keep the faith, my man.

Agreed.
IRT the story of the 16 year old, I have to ask -- isn't Bush the one talking about their great family values? Why doesn't Bush comment on the fact that these anchor babies are being taught "The law is to be followed...only if you can't get away with breaking it"?

Sam, it's slave labor no matter how you look at it. You have criminal employers hiring criminals at less than minimum wage and you have no problem with that.

I've seen families that were down on their luck, no jobs, no income and yet, they didn't become criminals. Yet, illegals come to this country, use our medical facilities and our schools without putting back into the system. You seem to have no problem with that but many of us do.

Do you think that the US should be responsible for a child just because the mother sneaked across the border in her ninth month so that her baby would be a US citizen? I don't!

I don't live in a foreign country so therefore don't need to know another language.

Sorry, but I wouldn't sneak into Canada because then I would be a criminal and criminals should be punished.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

Boo fucking hoo.

How about instead of letting a bunch of illegal aliens come in our country, we make able bodied welfare recipients and incarcerated criminals from our prisons do these jobs of picking our fruits and veggies ?

Or, how about for every day we care for an illegal, mexican immigrant in this country, we charge mexico 1 barrel of oil which they have plenty of ?

We're accepting all of Mexicos lowlifes and bums shouldn't we charge them for the effort ?

I am a firm supporter of the welfare/prisoner idea you have put forth. I think the amount of welfare state we have become is a reason we are in this situation to begin with.

how about they pay americans money to pick the damn fruit? oh yea they dont want to because they would make less money, They would rather hold out let fruit rot and rely on sympathy to maybe get them cheap labor then pay the extra 2-3 bucks an hour to american workers. I have heard so much bullshit about employers on farms paying 20.00 an hour to go pick fruit because they claim there is no one anymore to work, thats nothing but smoke. They just want americans to feel sorry for them and have a change of heart on this issue. I dont wanna sound harsh but this "rotting fruit" crap is just political pandering. they want workers? they should get a damn bus and go to Chicago and put a sign up that says "your hired get on the bus" and you will fill that bus in about 15 minutes.

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America’s political correctness is a disease that will bring down our once fine nation.

It's their problem as businesses if they can't make money legally. Well, their problem and the government's for having a minimum wage.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.