Problem isn't solved by your amnesty plan, it is made worse.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Why do you say that? I am not advocating an amnesty, any more than getting a fixit ticket and paying the fine is an amnesty.

Why wouldn't simply fining migrant labor that is already here solve the problem? Are you saying that the analogy of receiving a fixit ticket and paying a fine does not solve that problem?

Daniel, since you seem to ignorant to truly appreciate the complexities of the situation, and because you keep wanting to compare the illegal entry into a country with jaywalking, I'll put it into a different, yet no less accurate, perspective for you.

When illegals cross into this country, you want to fine them and send them on their way.

I want them shot as they cross the border.

Clearer now?

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

Citizenship cannot be purchased, nor should it ever be possible to purchase citizenship. Your "fix it" ticket plan would amount to nothing more...

Nor will yours.

Sure, there are plenty of laws which could be repealed. You have to pick your battles. I like an immigration policy which allows the use of deadly force as someone comes into the country illegally...

You want to put a price tag on everything. That's to be expected, I suppose, since one of the largest sources of Mexico's economy is money sent there by people working in the United States illegally.

In San Diego County, there's an illegal immigrant camp in the canyons of an exclusive neighborhood. Hundreds of illegal immigrants live there. Coyotes bring in prostitutes, from Mexico, to service the men living there.

If one of those whores gets pregnant, guess what? American taxpayers will foot the bill for her to have her baby. Personally, I'd rather toss her ass into the back of a van and she can squeeze the little guy out as the van's screamin' down I-5 towards the border.

Unfortunately, though, it's more likely that my tax money is going to pay for the birth of that little sonofabitch to a woman who's here illegally, committing an illegal act with men who are here illegally.

Get them all the fuck out, and start over, and do whatever's necessary to keep them from crossing the border in the meantime...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

How do you reason that a work visa is a form of purchased citizenship?

The welfare-state model is more cost effective at promoting the general welfare than a warfare-state model.

We already agreed that you are a false patriot to our free trade rhetoric.

I am not sure we are on the same page when it comes to ethics and morality; and enforcing the laws.

I am not advocating that any established mechanism for obtaining citizenship be abolished. It is simply more cost effective to raise revenue and make honest labor market participants out of them than to use the less effective command economics of the warfare-state.

You want to fine them and give them a visa. Where's the penalty for entering the country illegally?

Oh, wait, you don't want any...

I still don't know what the Hell you're talking about with "warfare state", but I can guaran-damn-tee you that the welfare state won't be helped along by immersing 11,000,000 more people into it...

We've agreed on nothing, Paco.

Free trade does not include allowing illegals to pour into our country. You're clearly too ignorant to realize that. I get understand that about you...

It's pretty damn clear that you want immigration laws done away with. As for my wanting illegals shot dead in the desert, well, if that's unethical and immoral, so be it...

No, you're not. But you're also suggesting that they not be adhered to...

They start out, right from the start, being dishonest when they enter this country illegally. There's nothing to go on to suggest that they'll be "honest".

I say fuck 'em; let 'em dry up and die in the desert while they're eluding Minutemen...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

Daniel,
It is obvious that you have zero respect for the national sovereignty of the US.

You need to understand that patriotic Americans do have respect for US sovereignty and find the disrespect shown by the illegal immigrants very offensive.

You keep acting surprised as though you don't understand why people are upset.

I thought the fine was the penalty?

The public treasury could be benefited by the revenue potential from foreign labor market participation.

I though we were arguing about the laws and how they can better serve the populace.

How is advocating a work visa program equivalent to advocating the repeal of all immigration laws

What does a work visa have to do with a residency visa and citizenship?

It would benefit more by using "our" people to do the work.
Reduced unemployment and welfare would be one, increase in tax revenue would be another

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Anyone who thinks freedom comes cheap, please put the blindfold on and stand against the wall.

Many times I believe Americans will have to take back the country and start a new government.

Calvin,

I am not sure how you can reach that conclusion. I have a lot of respect for sovereignty of the US that was created by the social contract known as the US constitution.

The ninth and tenth are there for a good reason; to limit the power of the various governments and the interstate; and, to preserve individual liberties. That is why they are known as the Bill of Rights (in their collectivity).

I think advocating an effective death penalty for something as serious as jaywalking, is being somewhat specious (in a wag the dog sort of way, at the very least.)

Daniel

Hey, if they don't want to get shot, they can stay in Mexico...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

I am not sure our economy would benefit by restricting a product (foreign labor). If you understand the concept of monopolies, you can understand this economic position.

That is why it is probably better to issue work visas, fine any black market labor participants and make honest US workers of them.

From a purely ethical consideration, there are a lot worse laws that are broken everyday, and there is no outcry for the death penalty for those crimes against secular humanity.

Since there has been no formal declaration by the legislature, and any reasonable person, can understand that migrant labor is not an armed invasion; it seems, to me, that advocating the death penalty for something as equivalent as jaywalking, could be considered a flawed strategy for the current tactical situation.

If they break one law, why should we believe they'll adhere to all others?

Fining them isn't going to ensure that they become "honest". Any belief to the contrary is stupid...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

So what?

I'm not talking state sponsored execution, which is suggested by the term "death penalty".

No, I'm suggesting average Americans head out to the desert, armed to the teeth, and start huntin.

Big difference.

I don't "understand" that illegals are unarmed. In fact, it's often exactly the opposite.

But here's the thing: We don't know, because they're entering the country illegally. They're not "checking in" with anyone.

And, make no mistake: At 11,000,000+ strong, it most certainly is an invasion...

I say err on the side of caution, and blow a hole in them the size of Denver...

I'll probably get another warning for this, but you're a complete idiot. Even idiots look at you and say "Damn... THAT guy's an idiot".

Illegally entering the United States is not the equivilant of jaywalking. If you believe it is, you need to leave. Go someplace where they actually believe the same kind of fucked up things you do.

Mexico, maybe.

I don't believe I've ever encountered someone as ignorant and stupid as you...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":