OK. This is true. My point was merely to keep the safety of teachers and studens not in question. But it seems we agree fundamentally.


Agreed, on all points.

Not a bad idea, IMHO.

Its only scary to those who are afraid of an inanimate object.

As to exactly when, well when i was in school (which wasnt all that long ago) come hunting season many of the teachers would have their guns in the classroom. I had one teacher who was armed all the time, and i daresay you'll find a number of teachers in such states as VT and AK (which require no permit for carry) who go armed quite frequently even today.

The gun isnt the problem my friend - it is your irrational fear of the object which is the problem.

Are you worried about the armed guard or cop present at most schools? If not - why not and how are they somehow "better" than the teacher?

I'm STILL waiting for your reasoning as to why you brought the "gun industry" into this discussion. Frankly sir, the fact that you would even use such a phrase indicates how much of your position is based upon ignorance and emotion.

__________________
In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Silence is golden...Duct tape is silver.

The gun is the problem when it can't be trusted with all people. And you don't know who is a psychopath until they finally crack. It's bad enough we already have pedophiles teaching in our schools.

But besides that fact that I am no stranger to inner city violence, yeah, I fear the object when it falls into the hands of idiots who otherwise would be just scared punks without the guts to get even a few feet away from their victims in order to hurt them without the gun.



Um, let's see...this is a hard one...because that's the cop's lone job description? To be trained for protecting the public?


No. Common sense tells me that when the gun industry sells more guns, they make more money. I'm sure that this sometimes has nothing to do with right-sided politics, right?

If my position is based upon ignorance and emotion, then yours is based on your worship of firearms and ignorance (or outright denial) about the unpredictability of human nature. Talking about teachers carrying guns at school is just..well...plain crazy, dude.

Oh now guns must be trusted? Its still an inanimate object - worthy of neither trust nor caution.

You're right - you DONT know who is a psychopath until the crack. Thats life my friend. Deal with it as it is, not as you wish it to be.

You have presented nothing except your own fears to counter facts. Sorry, but we dont punish people because you're afraid they just might become a psychopath.
So what if you arent? Do you really think this nation ceases to exist at edge of the inner city?

Being afraid of the object is foolish. Respect it, certainly. Recognize what it can do to you if a person chooose to use it in such a manner, but fear it? Thats a childish reaction.

Those punks would be punks regardless of the presence of a firearm. You are insiuating they would be simply behave if the gun werent around.
BZZT! WRONG. That isnt the cops job. Never has been, never will be. Their job is to capture criminals AFTER THEY HAVE COMMITTED HARM.

So again, you have chosen to base your opinion on incorrect information. Its got nothing to do with right wing politics.
No, sorry - mine is most certainly based on the known unpredictability of human nature, as well as my rights. Those rights do not cease to have meaning because you are afraid of life.

I dont worship firearms - although you're more than welcome to attempt to insult my by saying I do.

You've not yet presented a single legitimate argument as to WHY teachers shouldnt have them if they wish. You have presented your unfounded fears but thats it.

__________________
In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Silence is golden...Duct tape is silver.

Exactly. People sometimes snap and invade schools to shoot children (as rare as the chances are of it happening to my kids in school). That's life Eric. You can't arm teachers with guns just because you feel schools, at large, are now threatened by a few deranged psychopaths.

Punish people? Dude, this is getting to be comical. How am I punishing people by arguing that teachers carrying guns is a crazy idea? Now, if I were to argue that nobody in this country should own guns (which I'm not), then that would be an effort to punish people.

Do you really think that your experiences outside of the inner city should be applied to this nation as whole (i.e. the supposed okie teachers who you claimed carried guns to school)?

The only thing that's childish is your replies. I've seen enough of them in the other threads to know that your arguments are usually weak, emotional, lack substance, and are foolish.

You are wrong Eric. Your lack of inner city experience is really showing. I've seen and known many fools who coward at the moment to fight with their fists, but once they get a gun in their hands, they turn into freakin' Wild Bill or something, pulling a gun out at the first sign of trouble and just capping away. Oh, how many times I've heard punks say that having a gun in their hands makes them feel powerful!


Yeah, campaign funds and powerful $upport from the NRA has nothing to do with it.

As an ex-Golden Gloves boxing champion, I probably have more gonads than you ever will Eric. I don't need to carry a gun for protection, nor do I have any in my house. I'm not that fearful.

Now tell me, who's the one who is afraid of life?

No, but you want to disarm them, thereby denying them of their rights, because of your irrational fear of an inanimate object and the possiblity that one of them might snap.
Restricting anyone from ownership or carrying a gun is a punishment my friend.
I really love your assumptions. For the record, that name was created when i lived in OKC. I currently reside in Houston - which had you actually looked beyond my name, you would noticed.

I am not a native Oklahoman. Dad was in the Army and i had the pleasure(curse?) of growing up all over the nation. Spent about 12 years living in the Washington DC Metro area and am reasonably familiar with the problems faced by a large city.

The schools of which i spoke were located in a variety of states, usually in urban or suburban areas, never rural. I've never lived in a rural environment in my life.

You see what happens when you make assumptions and draw conclusions when you dont have enough information?
Would you care to point out the weakness, emotion and lack of substance?
Ah yes - so Junior Gangbanger says it so it MUST be the truth. He would have grown up to be just like you had it not been for the evil gun.

If you believe that, you're not only ignorant of the facts in this issue but gullible as well.
Nope really doesnt. The NRA is not funded as well as you want to imply, and you're forgetting apparently that ALL of its funding comes from individual donations. Those individuals are of all political stripes - Republican, Democrat, Liberal and Conservative.

Why do those who are pro-gun-control insist upon demonstrating such a lack of knowlege about the very groups they attack?
Im not fearful either - im also not stupid.

Does my wearing a seatbelt make me fearful of an accident? No it doesnt. It simply means I am prepared.

Does the fire extinguisher in my kitchen mean i am afraid of fire? Nope - just that im prepared for the possibility.

Same thing with a gun.

By the way - i dont see where I said i did carry one for protection or even that I needed to. Could you point that out to me? It appears you're making yet one more assumption about me, my behavior and beliefs.

I'm glad you were a Golden Gloves champion. That must have taken quite a lot of physical training and time. Does that mean to you then that those who do not dedicate themselves to spending years in a gym are unworthy of the means of self defense?

Oh could you also explain exactly how that would assist you in protecting yourself from, oh lets say, someone like Eric Harris?
Certainly not me sir. I'm also not the one making unprovable claims of my physical prowess on an Internet forum as an attempt to bolster my factless argument.

Couple parting shots:

1) I notice you completely ignored the portion of my post where i corrected your false belief that the police were there to protect the public. Why is that?

2) It is a violation of forum rules to change a person's name in a post. Now you can either edit your offense, offer an adult apology, or have me submit it to the moderators as an abusive post - the choice is yours.

__________________
In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Silence is golden...Duct tape is silver.

Gee, I didn't realize that a large number of teachers were already carrying guns inside school buildings where the little sign outside says that drugs and firearms are prohibited.

Spoken just like a true gun worshipper.

As though I didn't notice the Texas flag and cannon long ago. OKC told me that you were either orginally from Oklahoma City, or you probably lived there at one time. I wasn't too sure of which one it was. *shrugs*

You mean like the way that you assumed I was scared of life just because I think that it's a bad idea for school teachers to carry guns? Give me a break.


Dude, who ever said I "attacked" any group? Just because my words show I'm not a fan of a particular group doesn't mean I attacked them. It's you, the "gun worshipper" that came across as being super sensitive just because I made a sarcastic reference toward the gun industry while disagreeing about the idea of gun toting teachers around children. That's all I did, and you immediately became defensive about it and sternly responded to my initial post, which wasn't even directed towards you in the first place. Prior to this, I've never had a problem with you at all. Why now? Why over something this insignificant?

Gee, an analogy using seat belts and fire extinguishers. I didn't realize that people who don't carry guns are endangering their own safety in case of an accident. That's what this is really about, isn't it? The radical idea of teachers carrying guns to school? I mean, terrible accidents never happen with guns, right? There's no way it could ever happen at school, or even fall into the wrong hands.





Eric, just like those individuals, I wouldn't stand a chance against a gun and you know it. The only difference is that I'm not paranoid about anything happening to me. When out in public, the best that anyone can do is be alert at all times and try to use their common sense to stay safe. We all take our chances. Besides, it's not as though everyone who carries a gun is automatically immune from becoming a victim of crime anyways.

But just because I personally choose not have a gun at home ( I prefer the company of my two German Shepherds), it doesn't mean that I don't think it's a good idea for someone have one. I'm actually all for it. It's just that I'm scared of my children becoming curious with them while I'm gone. If not for my kids, I probably would have one at home. So...




Yes, I'm sure that there are Eric Harris' and Dylan Klebolds running all over the place. It happens every day all over America.

And you claim you aren't paranoid?

It doesn't matter whether you believe me or not. My achievement as an amatuer boxer was for my own self-fulfillment. Besides, it's not as though I go around bragging about it on these forums anyways. It's behind me now, and I've moved on.

I simply referred to it because you were trying to make a false argument about me being a fearful person.

Gee, sorry that I'm not obsessed with answering every single one of your points. I do have a life ya know.

But I'll be sure to remember what you're saying whenever I read about police officers making their presence known at outings for the general public in order to discourage crime. Oh yeah, and today I called 911 to report a suspicious person walking down my alley, and they were on it immediately. What crime did he commit yet?

Woe is me. I'm so scared of having my first known infraction on a political forum that doesn't mean the world to me. I'll just lose so much sleep over it.

Fire away. I'll find it funny as hell more than anything else.

This is exactly the problem. The type of mentality that the best way to deal with a problem is with a gun. It permeates though a society whos very laws enshrine it.
If someone breaks into my house I will shoot him. Etc etc.
How do you stop teenagers encountering mental problems that make them violent. Toughy that one.
How do you stop them shooting their classmates? Reduce the chance of them getting their hands on a gun.
America has such gun related problems now because there are so many guns. The only way many people (usually those with a gun obsession) see to deal with it is to, oddly, increase the amount available.

I disagree, on several points.

The only "gun related problems" we have are crimes committed with guns. But the problem is not the tool being used. Eliminate the guns and the crimes will just be committed with different tools. Like in the case of the teenagers killing classmates, other means are possible than just guns. Take for example the stabbing that was in the news last week. Human bodies are quite frail.

And, I don't believe that the reason for the problem is because of too many or too few guns, but perhaps that they're in the hands of the wrong people. Gun control laws and restrictions make it difficult for law abiding citizens to obtain and carry weapons, leaving only the criminals and police with easy access to guns and the ability to carry them. And since police do not protect individuals, but only the public at large, citizens who are discouraged from arming themselves are left defenseless against criminals. Now fortunately concealed carry licenses, stand your ground laws, and Katrina bills are helping curb the situation, but many 2nd ammendment violations still go on.

And lastly, I don't think that many people are eager to kill someone as you suggest, stating that such attitude permiates society. And I especially don't believe that most people with guns hold this attitude, nor are they obsessed with their guns. It seems to me that the people most obsessed with guns are those who are trying to ban them out of an ignorant fear of them.

in all honesty - after seeing a news clip today of a person who had a dispute over his train ticket while carrying a sword - I doubt that a broom could prove mightier than a gun - although it was able to disarm the swordsman.

I guess the problem with guns is that there are too many looseheads around - and you can't be really sure who is a loosehead and who is not.

teachers - when confronted with half a class full of ADHD kids might become looseheads - although normally they would pass as quite sane.

To the best of my knowledge a lot of gun killings weren't intended to be killings - or given time to cool down, the situation could have been defused. the thing is, once you've fired a gun its done. there is no going back. too bad if you were close enough, or good enough - or maybe even bad enough at shooting - to take someone else's life.

You state that most people who have guns aren't eager to kill someone. in truth, most criminals aren't either. relatively few criminals will really stand their ground if caught - most are more inclined to run if they have the chance.

violent criminal behaviour is not the most common sort - despite what we see on TV.

I don't think the problem with "looseheads" is guns. If someone is prone to snap and kill someone they're either going to or not. Having a gun or not having a gun will make little difference. And if a teacher is so prone, they should not be a teacher.

Again, I don't think this tendency is isolated to guns. Allow me to re-state your point, but removing guns from the picture:

To the best of my knowledge a lot of killings weren't intended to be killings - or given time to cool down, the situation could have been defused. the thing is, once you've [killed] someone its done. there is no going back. too bad if you were [willing] to take someone else's life.

But some people want to take the focus off of the killing and put the blame on the tool used. Especially when the tool used was a gun. Why? Mainly I believe when it's not out of an outright political desire to disarm the law-abiding public, it's out of an ignorant fear of an inanimate object.

you know ... human beings don't fall into two discrete categories. over time, and in response to certain situations - perfectly sane, normal people can respond in unpredictable ways.

Most people will not deliberately go out and plan cold blooded killings. there are some who do - and you are right, whether they have guns, knives, ropes or anything else at their disposal, they will do this anyway.

but ... the VAST MAJORITY of killings are not committed by people who think like this. they are - to put it one way - opportunistic killings - and the presence of a gun makes the opportunity all that much easier.

BTW - what DID you think of the broom being mightier than the sword? could a broom be used to disarm a crazy guy holding a loaded gun with no casualties?

Naturally. Having a more powerfull tool makes anything easier. That goes for anything a gun can be used for, including killing someone, hunting, or protecting yourself or your family. A gun beats throwing rocks anytime, no matter how good or bad the intention of the person.

But to make guns less accessible/less present for an opportunistic killing also makes it less available for the good things a gun can be used for, including but not limited to hunting and protection.

I'm not familiar with what you're talking about.

A lot of things have happened in the schools over the last number of years. There is no ONE factor that is the bottom line in this problem.

Schools are too large. 2000 adolescents in one building is a recipe for disaster.

Busing was supposed to have cured the ghettos by exposing those children to the middle class. Unfortunately their values (or lack thereof) rubbed off on our children and not the reverse.

Kids are generally out of control and values are not what they once were. Winning the smile of God is definitely subordinate to wearing Nikes.

Heroes these days aren't the good guys.

And as studies have shown, 'they aren't like us.' This is the generation that has had 'quality time' and instant gratification isn't soon enough.

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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.

Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!