Should it or should it not be allowed?

Your opinions and/or reasons?

Pardon me, Rahul, but your question reminds me of one reason why I don't bother to post much on USP.....there are other reasons, of course, but I see (or did see) quite a few people here who wish to argue other people's beliefs, but not their own.

Why don't you start by giving us YOUR beliefs, and why you believe the way
you do?

hogheart

BTW: I will be happy to let you all know exactly what I believe about the death penalty. My thoughts are very controversial, but I'd rather not have my thoughts be the initiating input to this thread.

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I'm usually pretty open about my thoughts, but I get tired of defending my beliefs all the time. I'd be willing to bet there are others that feel this way too. I wish more participants would get right down to the root of their feelings and expose their beliefs to reasoned scrutiny.....not a "fist fight".

While I'm at it, I'll give my opinion about some of those on this forum......great debaters, that they are, it seems the objective is to debate, not to express any real considered thought or belief of any personal importance.....not to mention a general lack of immaturity by a few who post here. The one and only reason I am here, from time to time, is because I know of no other place to discuss 2nd amendment issues with those with differing beliefs, or those who outright disagree with me. All the other subjects of the day are covered on other forums I occasion.....with people who discuss, because they have a real interest in real discussion....rather than the spirit of the debate.

Sorry for the rant.

hogmania

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Visit my military photo album, Vietnam 68-69....

http://www.picturetrail.com/taipan22alpha

Maybe he wanted to discuss the topic rather than just start a thread to be preachy. Just a though.

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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Could be, partofme.....

In that case, he won't mind starting off the discussion with some input on the topic.

hogpile

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Visit my military photo album, Vietnam 68-69....

http://www.picturetrail.com/taipan22alpha

Why are you even interested? This thread isn't even about guns.

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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I feel it should be allowed.

The reality is, some people are bad. They will commit acts for which there can be no other legitimate response than to remove them from society.

Now some may say that this is retribution, not rehablitation, and to them i would say, "Why yes, yes it is". Thats pretty much the whole point of a justice system anyway isnt it?

It isnt about rehabilitating someone, it is ultimately about punishing them, and some crimes are so wrong that no punishment can ever equal the crime committed - so all we're left with is to take that person's life.

I do not feel the death penalty is state sanctioned murder either. Never has been and frankly it can never be. Murder is a wilfull intentional criminal act where one person takes another's life for no legitimate reason. Being executed for a crime you have committed is most certainly a legitimate reason.

Yes it is retributory. Yes it is barbaric. Yes it is harsh. No it isnt a deterrent. So what? The criminal sentenced to death has been found guilty of a harsh and barbaric crime. How else can he pay his debt? Money isnt going to bring anyone back to life. Warehousing him for decades isnt going to do anything except force innocent people to be punished for the criminals actions. Simply execute him and get it over with.

It is my contention that most of the arguments against the death penalty are based in a utopian ideal that someone shouldnt have to pay the ultimate price for his crime, and that all human life is precious. To that, all i can say is, if that were reality, then no crimes calling for the death penalty would ever be committed.

Not all life is precious, or even worth saving. Some people, frankly, have no business continuing to breathe.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Heheh that would almost be more accurately directed at me rather than Hog....

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

POM....

If it suits my mood, I'll reply to anything I damn well please.

wholehog

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Visit my military photo album, Vietnam 68-69....

http://www.picturetrail.com/taipan22alpha

That's fine. Just unusual.

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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Well, seeing as their has been only one attempt thus far by someone to put their views on the death penalty in this thread thus far, I'll be person #2. I think the issue should be looked at in terms of what is it trying to achieve, rather than how it will make us feel as individuals. Is the death penalty a deterrent to crime? No. Do countries that have the death penalty have less crime? No. Therefore, what is the social success of it? Clearly the idea of it does not work, and therefore a better solution needs to be found. What that is I'm not sure.

Well, if you don't want to respond, then don't. Why the aggresion?

I normally always give my views on things - this can be seen from all other threads I start. However, there are two reasons I sometimes don't give my views while starting threads:

1. I dont want to impose my beliefs upon everyone else from the word go.

2. I'm a bit undecided sometimes ... As on this issue.

My beliefs? Well, I'm not a believer in the death penalty, but primarily due to ethical reasons - though, I am not totally convinced I am right ...


Well, you can tell us now.
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The very reason I did NOT post my thoughts is because I'd like others to express theirs, so it doesn't turn into a bash fest from the start. NOt that I mind bash fests, but good discussions are nice too.

You know, it IS a discussion forum - pardon us for debating.

Your post doesn't sound like the most mature either.

You can use Google. There are plenty of others.

Well, if you dont like it here ... leave ... or, be a silent spectator. No need for outright aggro. (no offense taken though!).

Eric, thanks for your opinion. I have no argument with anything you say, to be honest ...

But, like Noahath posted, do you think the death penalty is a deterrent?

I believe that looking at the death penalty as a deterrent is taking the wrong approach.

It's not a deterrent, it's a punishment. Sometimes, people do things which are so heinoous that they should forfeit their right to live.

For me, it's really that cut and dry...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Well, that's very enlightening, Rahul. If I'd have said I'm for the death penalty, but primarily due to ethical reasons.....you'd know as much about my beliefs as I know about yours. How about giving a few specifics?


That is my point. Most always, when someone asks what others think, without giving input about their own point of view, what they really want is to not expose their own views to critical thought.

I apologize for making you think that I was criticizing you personally. I wasn't. On public forums, there are many who have the same MO as you do. On private forums, it isn't allowed.

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Now, for a few of my views.....

The death penalty isn't a deterrent, and never was intended to be. It isn't even a punishment! Prison time is punishment, the death penalty is nothing more than permanently eliminating a criminal from circulation.

As for the question of whether the death penalty prevents some crime from occurring.....how would you know for sure if some crimes were prevented from happening or not? We have statistics, but that's nothing more than using numbers to calculate a hypothetical conclusion. If we have a thousand murders, but five were prevented through deterrence, the statistics won't bear out conclusive evidence. If deterrence was a realistic argument, then executions should be carried out as they once were......a public affair. I believe the only reason why executions are no longer available for public viewing is, unfortunately, too many people saw it as entertainment.

IMHO, there should be no reason to have a life sentence without parole. Why should the public be burdened with the expense, when that individual will not ever have his freedom again? The death penalty should be expanded considerably to cover many other severe crimes.

There is much controversy about what constitutes "cruel and unusual" punishment. They say the electric chair is cruel.....and lethal injection.....and hanging. As far as I'm concerned, if the sentence is intended to produce death, there is very little that could be considered cruel and unusual as long as death is the motive.....rather than pain of suffering. It is my belief that one of the most merciful ways to execute a criminal is to use the firing squad......a half dozen bullets through the heart produces death almost instantaneously. (The dunking stool is cruel and unusual, but the stocks in a public square isn't....imho)

hogflash

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Visit my military photo album, Vietnam 68-69....

http://www.picturetrail.com/taipan22alpha

Well, I am sorry it didnt enlighten you as much as you would like to have been. But really, no - my saying that does not mean I know as much about your beliefs as you do mine. I still wouldn't know what you felt, or why you felt the way you did.

That is bullshit. It's got nothing to do with exposing my views. As I've stated before, and as you've conveniently skipped reading, I've stated my views on all threads other than this, and I already told you why I didnt here. Geez.

It seemed like you were.

Well, this is not a private forum, so you should not expect private forum etiqutte (sp??). When in Rome, do as the Romans do. When at USPOL, do as USPOLI'tes do (for the most part,anyway).

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This is interesting - if it's neither a deterrant nor a punishment, then what exactly is it in your book?

I would think not everyone wants to die, and thus would not commit those acts which may cause them to die a premature death via death penalty.

Statistics are not hypothetical. They are fact.

Sure it will - it will say the probability of prevention is 5/100 or something like that.

Not necessarily - death in a cramped private room is still death.