I'm sorry, tech. I have truly tried to understand your position. I have a gun-owning friend in Texas (formerly in SF) and we have had discussions about this on and off for years. When I was in SF I visited him and nearly had a heart attack when he handed me a book which opened up to show a hidden gun.

The only thing I ask is that the NRA keep its nose out of Australia. They did try to set up some sort of gun happy objection when our government cracked down on gun ownership after the Port Arthur massacre. You might want to read up on that, it shocked all of us. The vast majority in Australia were all for gun control. Certainly of those 'assault type' guns. We don't see any need for anyone to have them outside of a war zone.

What scared most of us was that this psycho was able to buy one of those 'military' type guns. He didn't have it illegally. Port Arthur is a beautiful area in Tasmania which is full of tourists nearly every day of the year. My god, I have visited it at least three times! And this is where this sicko decided to have his shooting spree. And don't give me that, if someone had been carrying a gun - that has been gone through and it didn't convince the Australian public or me.

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

Oh! and thank your for your courtesy and civility even though we don't agree.

My apologies if I have offended anyone, but sometimes I do get carried away with teasing.

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

I did not know that the NRA tried to get something going in Oz. I am going to have to re-think my donations to them, as modest as it may be. Because if there is one thing I do not like, it's when foreign groups try to influence internal politics. I don't mind discussing issues with foreigners, I changed my views on healthcare because of the views expressed bu fairly eloquent europeans on another forum for another website. But when a lobby group from here goes to Australia to affect change in their policy, I get grumpy. Just like I get grumpy when I realize that other countries have influence in US politics.

Some things a people should be allowed to decide for themselves. Your people have made your decision. Mine have made ours.

And thank you, for the politeness and compliment, if it was aimed at me. Polite discourse is what will change the world, not guns.

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If common sense were common, we would all have it (including me).

I am, I have three of them running around the house now. My avatar was from a series of paintings by Louis Wain as he was descending into schizophrenia. As the illness progressed, the cats looked increasingly like background in that painting.

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Election 2008 – Addicted to Placebos

I did mean you, Luna. Thanks again. And I couldn't agree with you more, about polite discourse.

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

I have been a cat and a dog person all my life. My life has always felt rather empty whilst living in flats and shared housing and couldn't have either or only one. I also find it hard to understand how anyone can like one and not the other.

How sad about Louis Wain. Great talent always seems to have its price.

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

Yes, they did, they even confused some brain-dead yobbos to put a sticker on their car about 'constitutional rights' LOL. We don't have anything like that in our Constitution.

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

Similarly, your arguments are just re-hashed bullshit from a MMM brochure.

You've avoided answering my question about how a law abiding citizen carrying a firearm is "perpetuating violence".

While every child killed is of course a tragedy, the truth is that firearms are well down on the list of causes of child death, well below bicycles, pools, etc.

It's pretty sick and callous of the gun ban fanatics to seize on these deaths for their own political purposes, IMHO.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Perhaps because it didn't happen.

There was a row because the NRA used the rise in crime in Australia following the ban in it's US materials, prompting some protest from Australian officials.

Australia has it's own rifle association: http://www.nraa.com.au/

Here's a news item about the issue - the NRA's materials were on their website, not on Australian media. http://www.abc.net.au/am/stories/s112397.htm

Sounds more like Australia poking it's nose into US affairs than the other way around.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Matt, I don't have a clue who the MMM are. I just have an ingrained distrust of guns being used by anyone other than the police. The vast majority of Australians agree with me. Especially since we have had three incidents of gun massacres that should never have happened.

The police in the UK and Australia are the ones who see gun carrying by individuals as increasing violence overall. Why don't you send them an email, I'm sure they would be willing to lay out their objections for you.

There is an ethos of hunting in the UK, as there is here, but no-one there or here feels the need to walk around with a gun in their possession. Sorry that that fact doesn't fit into your world view, Matt, but it is one we are entitled too. I'm sorry but I find the society such as you defend so far out of my experience or need as to seem on another planet.

I find your attitude to children being murdered sick and callous too. And as far as I am concerned politics doesn't enter into it. You are taking an indefensible stance regarding firearms 'being well down on the list'. Matt, it shouldn't be on the bloody list at all!! This is the reason you and I will never see eye to eye on this, Matt. You see it as someone taking away, I see it as making the world a safer place.

I'm vulnerable much more than you are, but I don't even carry a fruit knife! Gun laws have less to do with 'need' than with 'attitude and custom'!

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

Matt, I'm sorry but we all laughed about that report, fronted by "Chuck" Heston, that the crime rate had risen in Australia.

The NRA contacted gun clubs in Australia. They distributed bumper stickers. As I said, some of the more dopey gun owners tried to get a backlash under way because of the NRA's influence on them.

Again, I tell you that the vast majority of Australians rose up and said 'gun control'. And the Australian government responded by doing just that!

We have done well in the Olympics in clay shooting and even our gold medalist said he believed in gun control.

Sorry, Matt, but your case is very weak regarding Oz.

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

I don't have a "case" regarding Oz.

You are the one suggesting that we must comply with your position, even to the point of calling those who don't agree with you "sissies".

The articles I links were quite clear - the Australian officials were demanding that a US group stop distributing materials in the US that portrayed Australia's gun confiscation in a bad light.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

And I note you are still avoiding my question, enigma.

How exactly does my carrying a firearm, which I have never drawn outside a range, constitute "perpetuating violence"?

I await your explanation of that claim with bated breath.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Oh! come one, Matt. You're more thick-skinned than that! Most of it was teasing. Others understood this, I'm curious as to why you didn't when others did.

Anyway, Matt. I have had a fantastic evening listening to African Rhythms at Werribee Zoo. I had a wonderful time, in fact, I bumped into one of my cousins and an old schoolfriend at the event. Be happy for me, as I don't get out too often.

Take care, everyone and nighty night from me!

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

Glad you had a great night out. There is not much better to be had than spending time with friends.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum