You've still not addressed how me personally carrying a firearm is "perpetuating" violence.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

It's silly to compare two countries and justify violence because it's not homicide ...

Here's your link:

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Scotland worst for violence - UN

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"I miss the days when they made toys that could kill a kid."
- Jerry Seinfeld

I don't support taking away, I do support reasonable control. Outside of my job I do shoot regularly in a private range. I can tell you the people I speak to and the management are impeccable models of professionalism with weapons. Sure they have the tee shirts and the decals and what have you but I can tell you I'm happy to shoot with them - safety and control are their bywords. They support reasonable control, they don't want dickheads getting guns, they're not in support of guns for all without restriction. I indicated the numbers of stabbings we have. The responsible gun owners/users donn't want to see those loonies getting firearms.


There are criminals and there are criminals. A crook who is going to do a hold-up needs a gun (dickheads used baseball bats, syringes with "blood" in them, iron bars and so on but nothing succeeds in gaining attention like a gun). A serious crook will get a gun, no question of it. But control over weapons means the dickhead crook, as opposed to the serious crook, will find it harder to get weapons. And most serious crooks won't use a firearm, they find the threat and production is enough to get their job done. Hopped up ICE freaks who might use a baseball bat, if given a firearm, will probably shoot the damn thing.

Ours were absolutely stupid policy. I can tell you, they were stupid beyond belief.


Can't speak for the US, all I can say is that in Australia we see it differently. Most jurisdictions have had fairly strict controls which people have accepted. Those controls have produced, on the whole, firearms owners/users who are very responsible people. As I said, before, they are very professional in their approach to use of firearms and well trained and educated in their use.

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

I need to preface this with my opinion that statistics are worthless, as they can be interpreted to mean just about anything, if the interpreter is clever enough. That said, here are a couple of articles with the numbers you are looking for:

RealClearPolitics Commentary

Guncite Article

So, depending on who you believe, people with firearms prevent 700,000 to 2,000,000 crimes per year. Note, also, that these folks are not all shooting their attackers. The statistics include just producing a firearm as a method of prevention.

And, just as a sidenote, I have two kids, which is why our firearms are always locked up, but still instantly accessible to myself and my wife.

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If common sense were common, we would all have it (including me).

Here's one from Friday in Miami:

http://www.miamiherald.com/459/story/29697.html

Note the felon carrying handcuffs. Was this just to be a robbery, or something more?

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Who knows?

And who knows how this could have turned out? It could have been a headline where the crook killed the attorney.

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

And as is, it is a matter where the innocent citizen successfully defended himself against a violent felon.

Hard to see this as a bad thing, IMHO.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Whats the total number of people who have a gun carrying permit in the U.S?

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It all comes down to this on election day: Are you a racist, or do you look down on spastics?

Sorry, no idea.

Florida has ~450,000 active permits, IIRC.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

In "shall issue" states (33 total), there are approximately 3 million permit holders. It's hard to get full numbers because thaere are two states, Alaska and Vermont, do not require a license to carry a concealed weapon. So, we have no way to track who does and who doesn't carry a firearm in those two states.

So, if you figure that 3 million permit holders are out there in 33 states, and there are 185 million people living in those states, the total percentage is about 1.6%. No telling in the "may issue" states, but it would not be surprising if these numbers are really low.

Keep in mind that this is only for concealed carry. In many states, like my own, you can actually carry out in the open, (not concealed) without a permit. That's why nobody can give you any real numbers.

Does that help?

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If common sense were common, we would all have it (including me).

NOt a very good link. Says the survey is based on phone calls?? How am I trying to justify violence. To me the bottom line is homicide. I can survive a broken nose of some busted teeth, but dead is dead. Are you saying if you got in a fight with a burglar it is better to kill him than perhaps both of you getting a couple of black eyes?

I am saying that breaking into my house, where my wife and two kids are sleeping, will bring out the worst in me. Assaulting me when I am out and about with my family is likely to do the same. It's not about the intentions of the burglar/ home invader/ child molester/ rapist. I will not have time to question them, only to act. And my intention would be to undo him before harm can come to me or my family. I don't really care if my assailant only wants the ten-spot in my wallet, or the watch on my wrist. What I do care about is taking care of my family.

And if I got in a fight with a burglar, why would it be alright if I got a black eye? Why would someone who commits an act of aggression against me have any rights? Why should they get off with just a black eye, and maybe some jail time?

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If common sense were common, we would all have it (including me).

'Bout sums up our different mindsets....

How do you know your prospective burglar is only there to steal your property? Do you just let him do whatever he wants and hope he just wants your TV?

Do you let him wander into the kids' rooms to see what his intent is?

I have no intention of letting an unknown intruder in my home get close enough to give me a black eye. Ever.

He'll get a warning that I am armed, and if he continues to approach, well, he's made a very bad choice.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

So if he comes on to your property and doesnt leave after being told to, you wouldn't follow the same routine? Only if he comes into your house?

Sorry ... Just HAD to bring that up ...