Do You Carry A Gun? - Page 23 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

3.14 · #**331** (**permalink**) 03-07-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatech

Actually, yes, if a crime is in progress, they have an obligation to stop it, you are right. In the case I described, the charge would be battery, and the police would step in.

In my youth (think 1980's) the police would stop a fight, separate the parties involved, and try to get things ironed out. In 99% of the fights I have seen (or been involved in

), the police would break things up, and ask if anyone wanted to file charges against eachother. Because of the way we were at the time, both parties would say, "No, no charges," and everyone would go their separate ways. Fact of the matter is, the only time I have seen someone go to jail after a fight is when they pulled out a weapon (knife, baseball bat, tire iron, etc.)

OK, thats what I was wondering about!! It seemed strange to me that the police wouldn't be obligated to stop a crime in progress, but we've cleared that one up.

Quote:

But in the case of the restraining order, a lot of the time the police can do nothing if person B is not caught in the act of violating the order.

Sure, that goes without saying - they have to catch the guy violating the law or have some proof that he did so.

Americano · #**332** (**permalink**) 03-07-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma2

I am well aware that there will always be a situation where one can't take one's way out of, or run fast enough and one can be badly hurt or killed. However, carrying a gun 'just in case', is still beyond my understanding. I pay taxes and that's a job for the police.

From your posts you live in a densely populated neighborhood. Police are reactive and it sounds like they'd be at your door if called in time to prevent any violent occurrence. That's simply not the case in many parts of the US, including cities, where LE response times are all over the board.

Steve · #**333** (**permalink**) 03-07-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pi Jiu

You seem angry and upset. Was it wrong of me to point out your job doesn't give you much to do?

Angry?

Upset?

Don't flatter yourself. You're not that good.

I call on guitar stores in Canada as Regional Sales Manager. I meet with no more than two dealers a day, which is how I schedule it. I could meet with more if I wanted to.

I don't want to.

I have one of the sweetest gigs in the world...

Quote:

What did I claim that most countries don't do? Maybe you could be less vague for a change.

Allow me to refresh your memory, from post #318, made by you:

Most nations don't allow their OWN citizens to carry firearms without a LOT of paperwork and procedures - I highly doubt this same courtesy would be extended to foreigners, ESPECIALLY in Europe. It's quite obvious though that you haven't traveled extensively outside North America, and thus don't have much of a clue on these things ...

Anyway, do you have any proof to offer? Or would the answer be no, as usual?

Please provide proof which supports your doubt, or stop trolling.

And, while you're at it, please provide proof that I haven't travelled extensively...

enigma2 · #**334** (**permalink**) 03-07-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Americano

From your posts you live in a densely populated neighborhood. Police are reactive and it sounds like they'd be at your door if called in time to prevent any violent occurrence. That's simply not the case in many parts of the US, including cities, where LE response times are all over the board.

No, it's not densely populated. I don't have neighbours at the back of me, but there are houses either side and across the road. I live on a block 153ft long by 56ft wide. It used to be an outer-suburb but since the freeway was put in I am only 15 minutes from the city.

I have the best of three worlds, city, rural and beachside. Although it would be safe to say that I don't go out often.

MattLarson · #**335** (**permalink**) 03-07-2007

So emigma, how do you think this lady feels about lawfully armed citizens now? http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pb...=2007703050350

How about the "sissy" that saved her life?

Matt

Diuretic · #**336** (**permalink**) 03-07-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveler

No you just need to clarify it with authorites of foreign nations as i understand it, they will let you carry it if they know before hand unless there's some law stating no civillian in the entire country can bear arms. And even still they have foreigor/tourist/overseas gun owner/gun trading laws that specify to different situations.

First you'd have to get Customs permission to bring a weapon in. Then you'd have to comply with state laws wherever you wished to travel. Since your weapon wouldn't be registered and you wouldn't be licensed as required you would need to check with police in each state you intended to travel to check requirements. Unless you had a specific reason (eg shooting tournament) for possession of the firearm you'd find yourself refused. The New South Wales govt recently had to amend its regulations to allow the
Secret Service to carry their own weapons when providing CPP for Cheney.

Diuretic · #**337** (**permalink**) 03-07-2007

Just on the sidebar discussion about police "obligation". What that case decided was that the police (I think it was a municipal agency) weren't liable for damages because they didn't have a specific obligation. Of course the police have a general obligation to carry out their duty.

In common law countries (not the US because it doesn't have a legal tradition of individual liability for police actions) a police officer can be sued and sometimes charged criminally for failing to take action in a matter.

In Liverpool in the UK a few years ago a constable was imprisoned for running away from a brawl where a club bouncer beat a man to death.

enigma2 · #**338** (**permalink**) 03-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattLarson

So emigma, how do you think this lady feels about lawfully armed citizens now? A death averted - The Clarion-Ledger

How about the "sissy" that saved her life?

Matt

Matt, as brave as this man was, it wasn't his job. It worked out well, but it could have gone the other way.

These incidents are best left to the police who are trained to deal with them.

MattLarson · #**339** (**permalink**) 03-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma2

Matt, as brave as this man was, it wasn't his job. It worked out well, but it could have gone the other way.

These incidents are best left to the police who are trained to deal with them.

Yeah, that would have been a great plan - let him set her on fire while waiting for the police, because it's "their job"?

WTF?

Matt

Wallaroo · #**340** (**permalink**) 03-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma2

Matt, as brave as this man was, it wasn't his job. It worked out well, but it could have gone the other way.

These incidents are best left to the police who are trained to deal with them.

You mean the Fire department.

Traveler · #**341** (**permalink**) 03-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallaroo

Are you a bodyguard for ambassadors or something? If you are then I might believe you, but no civilians are allowed to carry firearms in most EU countries, if any. In Denmark it is not a question of paperwork, nobody except the police or certified police agents/bodyguards are allowed to carry firearms, period.

Yes, it is to do with security/defence (i figured you already knew that) but i wont say anything more than that.

MattLarson · #**342** (**permalink**) 03-08-2007

Look, enigma! More "sissies" saving lives:

Maybe they should have just let the bad guy keep shooting while they waited for the police?

Matt

Lunatech · #**343** (**permalink**) 03-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diuretic

Just on the sidebar discussion about police "obligation". What that case decided was that the police (I think it was a municipal agency) weren't liable for damages because they didn't have a specific obligation. Of course the police have a general obligation to carry out their duty.

In common law countries (not the US because it doesn't have a legal tradition of individual liability for police actions) a police officer can be sued and sometimes charged criminally for failing to take action in a matter.

In Liverpool in the UK a few years ago a constable was imprisoned for running away from a brawl where a club bouncer beat a man to death.

I knew somebody was going to bring this up, so I ask you: If we cannot seek redress through civil or criminal courts, what can we do?

The case I linked and this case lay out in no uncertain terms that the police in our country have no obligation to protect us. We do, however, allow private ownership of firearms, and with a little paperwork in most states, we can even carry them concealed on our persons. So we don't have to rely on the dubious or slow protection from the police.

We can take care of ourselves.

EricOKC · #**344** (**permalink**) 03-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma2

Where the hell do yu live? Don't you have neighbours who would be alerted by your dogs barking their heads off? Further, one dog barks and it sets off the rest in the street.

Believe it or not, many people in the US do not live in areas where their neighbors are merely feet away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma2

It looks to me from your avatar and your posts that you are just longing for the day that some poor bugger steps over the line you have drawn. Has anyone warned the postie?

My avatar is the 1863 Gonzales flag. I would suggest you educate yourself before you make a further fool of yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma2

As for taking ANY level of personal responsibility for myself, I do, but that responsibility doesn't involve having a gun. I am not a vigilante. Our laws don't allow that sort of stupidity.

Defending yourself does not make you a vigilante. I'm sorry your laws require you to simply roll over and die.

EricOKC · #**345** (**permalink**) 03-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallaroo

I heard of a case from Louisiana some years ago where a Chinese exchange student was shot and killed by a paranoid house owner, just because he knocked on his door by mistake. I hope that idiotic house owner got a long prison sentence for that shit, but I wonder.

Just to clarify, the exchange student was drunk, pounded on the door and forced his way in. There were no charges filed.

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