Do You Carry A Gun? - Page 28 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

ian · #**406** (**permalink**) 03-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotathought

LOL .. citing the Brady site for a source ... priceless!!!

The statistics are valid, they are taken from the bureau of alcohol and firearms. Any factual rebuttal to make?

CYDdharta · #**407** (**permalink**) 03-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian

The statistics are valid, they are taken from the bureau of alcohol and firearms. Any factual rebuttal to make?

They aren't BATFE statistics; they're taken from the CDC, which is hardly unbiased. I'm sure I could find NRA statistics that refute the argument. Would you accept that as an answer?

ian · #**408** (**permalink**) 03-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYDdharta

They aren't BATFE statistics; they're taken from the CDC, which is hardly unbiased. I'm sure I could find NRA statistics that refute the argument. Would you accept that as an answer?

Show me the BATFE stats that support your claim thanks.

CYDdharta · #**409** (**permalink**) 03-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian

Show me the BATFE stats that support your claim thanks.

What are you talking about? I don’t have BATFE stats, and neither do you. Just to make sure we’re on the same page, BATFE is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

ian · #**410** (**permalink**) 03-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYDdharta

What are you talking about? I don’t have BATFE stats, and neither do you. Just to make sure we’re on the same page, BATFE is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

I will dig out the BATFE stats when I have a chance. They wont change the basis of the argument though.

Wallaroo · #**411** (**permalink**) 03-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattLarson

The vast majority of people licensed to carry a firearm never need to use it.

The difference is that if you are confronted with an armed criminal bent on doing you harm, your options are to try and de-escalate, flee and hope the police get there in time to help.

My options are de-escalate, flee, hope the police show up, and if there is no other choice, I can meet his armed deadly force with my own.

Wonder what penalty you would get for shooting unarmed people who attack you on the street?

Diuretic · #**412** (**permalink**) 03-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattLarson

Where on earth did you hear this load of nonsense?

Matt

Why is it nonsense?

Diuretic · #**413** (**permalink**) 03-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotathought

What "parts of the US" are you referring to?

Where, "in some places in the States" does one normally suspect an armed confrontation?

Please cite your sources too... thanks.

In any state with CCW permit laws.

No need for "sources" because I'm not quoting data.

You just need to think about it for a minute.

If CCW laws operate in a state then is it not more likely that a person you may be confronting may be armed?

In a CCW permit state there are people who will be carrying a concealed firearm lawfully, more than in a state that has no carry laws (got to be careful with my terms here, I think Az is a state that allows open carry).

Add those to the numbers who may be carrying illegally and you have more people with weapons.

Therefore the expectation that the other person has a weapon is greater.

Diuretic · #**414** (**permalink**) 03-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYDdharta

That's quite silly. There are no areas I know of where a majority of citizens have CCW permits. It’s difficult to find an area, at least an urban area, where the majority even own guns.

That's fair enough as a response based on personal knowledge. I must say I don't think I'd be going around asking either. Nor would I be telling. If I lived in a CCW permit state. I'd simply sign up and get one and carry it lawfully without telling anyone I was carrying.

Diuretic · #**415** (**permalink**) 03-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallaroo

Wonder what penalty you would get for shooting unarmed people who attack you on the street?

Generally speaking none. It depends if shooting the person is reasonable force in self-defence. The fact that the attacker is unarmed doesn't automatically mean that the person defending themselves is going to be penalised.

ian · #**416** (**permalink**) 03-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYDdharta

What are you talking about? I don’t have BATFE stats, and neither do you. Just to make sure we’re on the same page, BATFE is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

Try this
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Quote:

FIREARM DEATH, INJURY AND CRIME

The United States has one of the highest rates of firearm injury and death in the developed world. (3) (16) (20) In a study of 36 high- and upper-middle- income countries, the US had the highest overall firearm mortality rate. The firearm mortality rate was approximately 8 times higher than other high-income countries and the firearm homicide rate was approximately 19 times higher than that of the other 35 countries combined. (22) In 2001, there were 29, 573 firearm-related deaths in the US, for an average of around 80 deaths per day. (16)

A 1992 study in the United States estimated the direct and indirect annual costs of gunshot wounds at $126 billion (US). (20) (21) According to 2001 data, firearm deaths account for 1 of every 5 injury deaths. In 2002, there were an estimated 58,841 nonfatal firearm injuries treated in emergency departments in the United States. (16)

Young people are among the most affected by gun violence in the United States. The firearm mortality rate among children 14 years old or younger is nearly 12 times higher than the rates in 25 other developed nations combined. Young men are more at risk than young women; between the ages of 15 and 19, the firearm mortality rate for the former is 8 times higher, and between the ages of 20 and 24, the rate is almost 10 times higher. Black males between the ages of 20 and 24 years had the highest gun homicide rates of all groups in 2001 (106.5 per 100,000). This rate was more than 10 times higher than that for white males of the same age (10.5 per 100,000). Suicide is also major concern. In 2001, 928 people between the ages of 10 and 19 committed suicide with guns, for an average of more than 2 per day. In the same year, 55% of suicides for all age groups were committed with a firearm. (16)

Of the 5.3 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault committed in 2002, approximately 7% involved a firearm. The National Crime Victimization Study (NCVS) found that 353,880 victims of serious violent crimes reported that their offender had a firearm during the attack. This percentage leaps when it comes to lethal violent crimes. The FBI reports that approximately 63% (10,130) of the 15,980 murders in 2001 were committed with firearms. (9) Further, more homicides of women are committed by firearms than are committed by all other types of weapons combined. (20)

Homicides by Weapon Type, 1990 – 2000 (8)

Year
Handgun
Other gun
Knife
Blunt object
Other weapon

1990
11,677
3,395
4,077
1,254
3,037

1991
13,101
3,277
3,909
1,252
3,161

1992
13,158
3,043
3,447
1,088
3,024

1993
13,981
3,094
3,140
1,082
3,233

1994
13,496
2,840
2,960
963
3,071

1995
12,069
2,671
2,735
974
3,162

1996
10,731
2,531
2,692
917
2,778

1997
9,706
2,631
2,363
832
2,678

1998
8,844
2,168
2,257
896
2,805

1999
7,943
2,174
2,042
902
2,461

2000
7,950
2,209
2,090
724
2,545

Firearm-related Deaths in 1998 (10)

Measure
Total
Homicide
Suicide
Unintentional
Undetermined

No.
30,419
11,802
17,432
866
319

Rate
11.3
4.4
6.4
0.3
0.1

TYPES/SOURCES OF FIREARMS WHICH ARE MISUSED

One of the most notable developments in the last decade has been the phenomenon of the “sporterized” post-ban semi-automatic weapon. Firearm manufacturers, in order to circumvent the 1994 ban on weapons like the AK-47 and AR-15 (semi-automatics or “civilian models”) mentioned by name in the legislation, have made minor cosmetic changes to these weapons and have continued to release them to the public legally. (14) It is worth noting that one such post-ban firearm, a Bushmaster XM-15 semi-automatic assault rifle, was used by the Washington area snipers during their shooting spree in 2003. (24)

Assault weapons represent a significant threat to police officers. Approximately 41 of the 211 law enforcement officers who were killed on duty between 1 January 1998 and 31 December 2001 were shot with assault weapons. This means that one in five were killed by an assault weapon. (28) Nevertheless, since 1995 the frequency of the use of assault weapons in crimes has dropped significantly. (7) Between 1990 and 1994, the assault weapons named in the ban accounted for 4.82% of the guns traced to crimes by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF). Since the implementation of the ban, this has dropped to only 1.61%. Using these figures, the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence estimates that if the ban had not been enacted, approximately 60,000 additional assault weapons would have been traced to crimes in the last ten years. (31)

Use of Assault Weapons in Crimes, 1995 - 2002 (7)

YEAR
1995
1996
1997
1998
1999
2000
2001
2002

PERCENTAGE
3.57%
2.53%
2.02%
1.80%
1.91%
1.59%
1.30%
1.22%

Source: US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF)

Firearm Theft: According to survey data, approximately 500,000 guns are stolen each year from private citizens. Between 1998 and 1999, more than 27,000 firearms were reported stolen from licensed gun dealers and more than 3,700 firearms from businesses that transport guns. Theft plays a major role in arming criminals. A national survey of incarcerated individuals asked how they had obtained their most recent firearm. Ten percent indicated they had stolen it and an additional 8% indicated they had bought it from a “fence” – a dealer specializing in stolen goods. A further twenty-one percent reported having purchased their most recent firearm from groups known to steal weapons; for example, drug dealers, addicts, and other street sources. (17)

More than one-fourth of all guns connected with Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) investigations of firearms trafficking were reported to have been stolen. (17)
Source: US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF)

kramer · #**417** (**permalink**) 03-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

This goes along with the other thread about wanting a gun.

If you own a gun, do you carry it regularly, be it legally or illegally?

I was, at one time, licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Only once was I required to draw the weapon, and I'm damn glad I had it with me at the time.

Now, while I'm no longer licensed, I still do carry. I would much rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

So, do you carry?

Never owned a gun and never carried one (only had a few BB guns as a kid).

I 100% believe in the right to keep and bear arms however. Just as long as the people carrying them are not insane or convicted felons.

Kramer

CYDdharta · #**418** (**permalink**) 03-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian

Try this

Well, at least there are a couple BATFE stats there anyway; assault weapons and misused/stolen firearms.

mpd8488 · #**419** (**permalink**) 03-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallaroo

Wonder what penalty you would get for shooting unarmed people who attack you on the street?

They key is whether the aggressor's actions would have made a reasonable person feel that they were in imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death.

MattLarson · #**420** (**permalink**) 03-20-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallaroo

Wonder what penalty you would get for shooting unarmed people who attack you on the street?

Where did I say I would do so?

Matt

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