^^^ Preachin' to the choir. I hear you, this is one of the reasons I don't debate this online too much anymore. But I do vote with my dollars....

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If common sense were common, we would all have it (including me).

I am more interested in how many of those 750.000 (or 108.000) defensive gun uses where the gun is actually fired, and weather or not it was appropriate. But I guess we will never find out.

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It all comes down to this on election day: Are you a racist, or do you look down on spastics?

I can tell you that, in at least one instance, a gun was fired and it was appropriate.

For me, that one instance is enough to validate the issue...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

If you read the details in that study I linked to, I believe this information is provided.

Are you implying that because it wasn't fired, it doesn't count?

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

I hear ya. I don't get involved with this kinda stuff too much anymore either - unless someone says something just so abysmally stupid that I cannot let it pass.

It isnt like the information isnt out there, and it doesnt take a Doctorate in Constitutional law to understand either. Bottom line in my book is this: Regardless of how you wish to (mis)understand the 2nd Amendment, nowhere is the federal government granted the authority to limit private ownership of weapons. Since that authority has not been explicitly granted, it does not exist. If people disagree with that, there are processes in place to amend the Constitution to grant that authority to government. Consequently, as the power has not been granted, and my peaceful and proper use and ownership of a gun does not harm anyone, then really there is no legitimate or logical reason for said ownership to be restricted.

Why that is so hard for people to understand and accept is beyond me.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

If all these people were being saved by their guns then the crime and victimization rates should be much higher in those places where people don't have easy access to guns to protect themselves, but that's not what we see is it?
If Americans prevented 108,000 murders by having guns available, then the streets of Canada should be rivers of blood, but they're not are they?

My theory is that people who carry guns are more likely to be paranoid, and have a distorted view of the world. They are more likely to believe that they are somehow safer by carrying around a weapon, and they are more likely to report that their weapon has saved them.
Your link reports that one woman reported she had used her firearm to protect her from life threatening situations 52 times in the past year.
To me that's a sick person running around with a deadly weapon, while I don't doubt that there are situations where firearms save lives, on the whole I think that they are very rare, and vastly over reported.

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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

I had a theory once that Donald Trump really wanted to be an African-American dentist. Like your theory, though, there was absolutely nothing to support it...

Well, you have to admit, it would be pretty silly to try to report that our weapons saved us if we didn't have them...

What do you base that opinion on? Your overwhelming and paralyzing fear of guns?

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

You're right - because Washington, DC is a utopia.

You're kidding right?

Goober, crime rates ARE higher in places where guns are restricted. This can, and has, been demonstrated.
This question makes no logical sense whatsoever. Besides the fact that the 108K number presented by the NCVS does not claim they are all prevented murders, it has nothing to do with Canada.
Your theory is based upon nothing but ignorance. Facts present an entirely different face. Those who may carry them ILLEGALLY are one thing, but those who carry them legally are provably the most law abiding, and arguably some of the most stable, in society. If anyone has a distorted view my friend, it would be you in this instance.
Well since they carry them, then yes, they are more likely to report that they've used it accordingly. Funny how that might work, don't you think? Ascribing paranoia to them because of your own ignorance is not valid.
Not knowing where she lives, I cannot judge her response or reasoning - and frankly neither can you.
You're welcome to hold that belief in the face of all the facts to the contrary, but to make the claim that you believe they are very rare and vastly over-reported regardless of all the evidence makes me question your sanity. Do you really believe you are the first one to have that opinion?

What, in your demonstrably uninformed opinion makes a person "sick" because they choose to carry a firearm? Why is it that you seem to be the only person with the mental clarity to arrive at this conclusion when all the people who legally carry a gun every day have had their backgrounds checked out on a local, state and national level and are found to be normal? Do you really think you somehow can perceive something which was missed by the literally thousands of people involved in reviewing CCW applications?

Ultimately it comes down to this goober: I dont give a damn WHAT you want to believe. You have the right to be as stupid as you want. We have presented the facts to you, and you can do with them as you will. Do not expect others to change their beliefs or actions based upon your fears and stupidity.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

You are so brain washed that you don't see any reason to suspect that someone who believes that they need to brandish a deadly weapon an average of once a week to avoid bodily harm is probably a little paranoid.

You can believe you are protecting yourself, but everyday 80 people get shot to death in the US, and most of them are gun owners.

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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

Street punks "brandish" weapons. Responsibe gun owners draw their weapons and fire them when appropriate...

Sorry, but you can't say something like that and not back it up. References, please...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

And you are so brainwashed as to believe that single anecdotal example is typical.
Since about 45 of those are killing themselves, 33 of them are crime victims beyond my control, and the remainder are pure accidents NOT involving my guns, I really don't care.

The ONLY ones which MIGHT not die were guns made illegal for the general population are the accidents, and frankly Goober, 2 people per day out of 300 million is not worth even noticing, let alone sacrificing my rights on the off chance they aren't so stupid that they meet their deaths through other means.

You haven't refuted my arguments, you've simply chosen to ignore them in favor of your emotional biases. You're free to do this of course - and I support your right to be stupid.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

You and I are no different than street punks to an anti Steve.
Well, that number is kind of true. 45 of those 80 are suicides. Intelligent and intellectually honest people realize they are going to kill themselves anyway regardless of guns. Roughly 33 are crime victims - and we all know that criminals, being criminals, aren't going to obey any gun control laws. (As an aside, those 33 also include people who are killed in justifiable homicide - i.e. a criminal killed in the commission of a crime) The remaining 2 are accidents. While that is sad for those directly affected, in a nation of 300 million people, there's going to be a few which die daily from their own stupidity - or the stupidity of others.

It is also arguably true to say most of these people are gun owners, or at least have ready access to them. Of course, it is just as true to say they are air breathers, and it has just as much bearing on their death.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Taken in the context of this discussion, though, it would appear that Goober believes that the majority of those people are killed because they drew their weapon.

I wonder how many car owners are killed on America's highways every day. I'm guessin' it's more than 80...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Quite, and the figures these guys put forward vary widely, are at times a result of questionable survey methods from biased pro gunners and ignore the fact that just because a gun was present does not necessarily mean that it was necessary or that a favourable or more favourable outcome may not have transpired without one.
But I warn you I have waste thousands of words trying to get that point across in a similar thread. Good luck