Freedom > Security

I would much rather die free then live as a slave.

Freedom to bear arms guarantees a nation's citizens all of their other rights.

And this from the American Declaration of Independence
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

For these reasons the rights of American citizens have been paid for many times over by the lifeblood of many. Yes our rights are worth our lives.

[quote][I wonder how many car owners are killed on America's highways every day. I'm guessin' it's more than 80/QUOTE]
Please post any evidance you have regarding this.

See I am one who agrees to a point. I agree there are people in the US who should not have guns, but I am an avid gunner myself. If I were restricted to UK-Australian-Canadian guidelines I would be highly disappointed.

One must ultimately know. It is a tactical decision to pull a gun in a situation. Often times it could be quite helpful, considering the person pulling the gun is responsible.

Ultimately, one cannot count on the local police force to protect themselves. It is reliant on the individual to protect themselves due to the reaction time of local authorities.

Are you like that? Would you do anything possible to avoid a conflict that could escalate, even if someone spits on your daughter?

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It all comes down to this on election day: Are you a racist, or do you look down on spastics?

Please refer back to where I said "I'm GUESSIN' it's more than 80".

Thanks so much...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

This thread isn't about banning guns, it's about carrying guns.
I am just pointing out that owning and carrying guns subjects the owner and the carrier to greater risks than not owning and not carrying guns.
Having a gun in the house allows 45 people a day to successfully turn a suicidal impulse into a suicide, suicide attempts by means other than firearms are far less successful than suicide attempts with firearms, and the vast majority of these suicides are gun owners or the immediate family of gun owners.
A couple of people die each day in gun accidents, again mostly gun owners and their immediate family.
There is real danger in gun ownership.
The "protection" that gun ownership provides can be illusory, sure you can project that 108,000 times people believe they were protected, but I have managed to survive into my 50's at least (having been threatened with guns on three occasions, by idiots that owned guns).
And I have heard people tell their stories about "pulling their piece" and have not been convinced that the gun offered them any real protection, and probably increased the likelihood of them getting harmed, and in one case the gun was the direct cause of the gun owner receiving a severe beating (like two weeks in the hospital severe).
That's the reality I live in, I'm just relating it to you.

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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

Here you go, courtesy of NHTSA:

(2006 data)

Total fatalities: 42,642
Fatalities / day: 116

Total injuries: 2,575,000
Injuries / day: 7,054

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Looks like more than 80 to me.

Huh...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Fair enough, and thanks for the efforts on this. Forgive me, due to my remoteness, I am more or less out of the loop when it comes to things like this.
There hasnt been an auto related death where I live, in probably a decade, so I dont have much to compare it to.

I just think it's funny that you ask me for evidence to back up something that I said I was "guessing" at, but then you come back and admit to being clueless anyway...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

I am licensed and do carry , every day.

if I didnt have the license , I still would carry and would be legal as far as I am concerned as I have the right to keep and bare arms.

I am also very well trained , being a combat vet who served in the US Army

I do suggest that anyone who does decide to carry be trained , and to be certain that they can squeeze the trigger if called on to do so

Someone spitting on my daughter has not done something to endanger her life, hence no need to take his. The exact circumstances of such an act would determine the response.

Wallaroo, I not only carry a gun, but I ride a motorcycle daily. There are MORE than ample opportunities in daily traffic to escalate a conflict, and yet I never do. My life is threatened dozens of times simply going to work by the inattention of others. Were I the type to seek out confrontations, there'd be a trail of dead bodies behind me.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

If someone spit on my daughter, that would be a form of assault.

I wouldn't shoot a guy who did that, but I'd hit him so fuckin' hard his kids would have a headache...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

That would be a very understandable reaction, but also a very inappropriate reaction for a person carrying a gun. People who are carrying guns are supposed to be role models, but that again you don't carry it legally. I think that EricOKC agrees with me in that.

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It all comes down to this on election day: Are you a racist, or do you look down on spastics?

Thats good.

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It all comes down to this on election day: Are you a racist, or do you look down on spastics?

"Inappropriate"?

What would be appropriate? Should I nicely ask him to stop?

No, "inappropriate" would be if I pulled my CZ and aerated his head.

You know, in all of my training, I've never been told that carrying a gun means you have to be a "role model"....

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"