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Gun Rights and Security Issues Gun Control, Crime, Drugs, Defence, Homeland Security, Immigration, Law Enforcement

View Poll Results: Do You Regularly Carry A Firearm?
Yes 47 29.94%
No 110 70.06%
Voters: 157. You may not vote on this poll

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  #901 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Well, they might have stopped at that point, in which case you wouldn't have had to actually shoot, wouldn't you agree? Or they might have stopped after a warning shot, who knows?
Or they might not have - and whether they do or not, by firing that "warning shot" you've now committed the crime of reckless endangerment, and possibly unintended homicide.

I assure you Adrien, in the United States, firing a warning shot is not just stupid, its against the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
How would I know? I'm not you. I can only speculate on what I would have done in that same situation, that is, I'd have started swinging when they got within knife range.
In which case you and your loved one would have been very badly cut and likely killed. Remember, in Steve's situation there were 4 of them. Good luck with taking on 4:1 odds when they're armed and you're not. Let me know how that works out for you, or better yet, put a provision in your will for your estate to let me know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Oh, please, what were they? Brain-eating zombies? A warning shot would definitely stop ME.
That's because you're not a criminal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Probably. Wouldn't miss a leg, though.
Yes you would - believe it. If not, you'd be the best natural shot ever born as well as a disturbingly cold human being.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Well, I can defend myself fine without a firearm, as unlike you I've never had to face brain-eating zombies.
Nice fallacy - i remember why I had you on ignore. I dont believe he said anything about them being brain-eating zombies. In fact, I believe he's given very specific details on what and who he faced. Of course, as we can see, facts do not matter to you, only fantastic hypothetical situations which can be resolved through super-human feats of hand-to-hand combat and/or marksmanship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Additionally, I don't get the shakes.
You are either lying, or simply ignorant of the fight-or-flight response. An adrenaline dump of that magnitude in your system will degrade fine motor control. That is an absolute verifiable fact. If you do not believe me, please talk to ANY physician.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
That is, I do get them, but only when I'm not actually in danger, such as when I have to prepare for a difficult interview.
Ah, so you get a fight-or-flight adrenal response in non-life-threatening situations which causes you noticeable discomfort, yet you think in a life-threatening situation (which you've admittedly never been in) you would be cool as a cucumber?

i call bullshit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
What do you suggest I do? Go get mugged? I don't have a gun...
How about you just learn facts from people who HAVE been there and know a LOT more about this subject than you obviously do, rather than relying upon your own ignorance and bias? I believe that is what everyone has suggested...
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  #902 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Well, I need to be angry to be able to hurt people, so I'd probably wait until I've been stabbed to blow the guy's head off...
Then you would be dead.
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  #903 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
AdrienXII AdrienXII is offline
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
Then you would be dead.
Takes a lot more than a lousy stab to kill someone. It'd probably just be a cut, anyway, it's not like I'm going to stand there waiting for some fuck to run me through.
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  #904 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Well, whatever works for you. Personally, I'd feel bad if I'd not at least tried to prevent the encounter from becoming fatal. Must be my Christian upbringing...Not to mention there's a serious possibility I'd go to jail if I couldn't demonstrate that I only used deadly force as a last resort.
No, it has nothing to do with a Christian upbringing, but rather a lack of information combined with a refusal to learn. That condition is USUALLY referred to as stupidity.

Deadly force IS a last resort. In the situation Steve described, I am unaware of ANY locale in the United States, which would not have considered that a situation deserving of deadly force. 4 to 1 odds against armed assailants? At night? Yeah - that pretty well justifies it anywhere in the US - probably in France too...
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  #905 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Takes a lot more than a lousy stab to kill someone. It'd probably just be a cut, anyway, it's not like I'm going to stand there waiting for some fuck to run me through.
No my friend it does not take much more than a single stab wound to kill you.

One thrust with a 4" blade in the right location and you will bleed out in less than 20 seconds. Again, don't trust me on this - check with any physician.

Blades are just as dangerous as handguns at contact range, if not MORE dangerous. That my friend is an absolute fact of life.
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Last edited by EricOKC; 12-03-2007 at 11:22 AM.
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  #906 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Well, I need to be angry to be able to hurt people, so I'd probably wait until I've been stabbed to blow the guy's head off...
Anger is an emotion and difficult to harness in a productive manner.
You might think about blowing the guy's head off but unless you're superman your immune system would be rushing every physical resource in your body to the wound and that disables your response ability. That's the reason for the double tap, as crank and other serious amphetamines bypass the immune and other systems. You don't seem like a tweaker.
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  #907 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
No my friend it does not take much more than a single stab wound to kill you.

One thrust with a 4" blade in the right location and you will bleed out in less than 20 seconds. Again, don't trust me on this - check with any physician.

Blades are just as dangerous as handguns at contact range, if not MORE dangerous. That my friend is an absolute fact of life.
Which is the reason for the 2-second or 21-step rule when confronted with knife wielding assailant.
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  #908 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
Which is the reason for the 2-second or 21-step rule when confronted with knife wielding assailant.
Yep yep yep - but hey, what the fuck do the professionals know?

According to Adrien, all one needs to do is fight back bare handed, because one lousy stab wound won't hurt you. According to scotlandforever, one need not even be concerned about knives or blunt objects anyway as they are not dangerous...
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  #909 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
AdrienXII AdrienXII is offline
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
Or they might not have - and whether they do or not, by firing that "warning shot" you've now committed the crime of reckless endangerment, and possibly unintended homicide.

I assure you Adrien, in the United States, firing a warning shot is not just stupid, its against the law.
Well, okay. Just tell the cops you missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
In which case you and your loved one would have been very badly cut and likely killed. Remember, in Steve's situation there were 4 of them. Good luck with taking on 4:1 odds when they're armed and you're not. Let me know how that works out for you, or better yet, put a provision in your will for your estate to let me know.
Yeah, well, possibly. Maybe they only wanted Steve's money, and wouldn't have hurt him, or his wife.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC
That's because you're not a criminal.
No. That's because I'm not stupid. Charging a gun with a knife strikes me as eminently stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC
Yes you would - believe it. If not, you'd be the best natural shot ever born as well as a disturbingly cold human being.
If you say so. You all agree that shooting someone in the leg is impossible, then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC
Nice fallacy - i remember why I had you on ignore. I dont believe he said anything about them being brain-eating zombies. In fact, I believe he's given very specific details on what and who he faced. Of course, as we can see, facts do not matter to you, only fantastic hypothetical situations which can be resolved through super-human feats of hand-to-hand combat and/or marksmanship.
You had me on ignore because of your delicate stomach. I said I believe a warning shot is enough to deter unarmed assailants, address that, not the metaphor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC
You are either lying, or simply ignorant of the fight-or-flight response. An adrenaline dump of that magnitude in your system will degrade fine motor control. That is an absolute verifiable fact. If you do not believe me, please talk to ANY physician.
Any physician will tell you that physiological responses vary from individual to individual. Maybe I just take longer than most people to emotionally process situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC
Ah, so you get a fight-or-flight adrenal response in non-life-threatening situations which causes you noticeable discomfort, yet you think in a life-threatening situation (which you've admittedly never been in) you would be cool as a cucumber?

i call bullshit.
I've admitted no such thing. I don't know any adult who has never found himself or herself in a life-threatening situation. You may, of course, call bullshit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC
How about you just learn facts from people who HAVE been there and know a LOT more about this subject than you obviously do, rather than relying upon your own ignorance and bias? I believe that is what everyone has suggested...
I'm trying to learn, but so far all I'm learning is fancy new insults.
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  #910 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
AdrienXII AdrienXII is offline
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
No, it has nothing to do with a Christian upbringing, but rather a lack of information combined with a refusal to learn. That condition is USUALLY referred to as stupidity.
If you're going to keep insulting me, kindly try to make them good insults. This is boring in the extreme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
Deadly force IS a last resort. In the situation Steve described, I am unaware of ANY locale in the United States, which would not have considered that a situation deserving of deadly force. 4 to 1 odds against armed assailants? At night? Yeah - that pretty well justifies it anywhere in the US - probably in France too...
I doubt that. I think the warning shot is mandatory in France, in case the assailants didn't see the gun.
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  #911 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Well, okay. Just tell the cops you missed.
Great, you missed, and someone is dead because you were an idiot. I'm sure saying "I missed" is going to be good enough to bring him back to life. Oh yeah, you may be dead yourself because while you stupidly fired a warning shot, the assailant closed that distance and stabbed you in the heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Yeah, well, possibly. Maybe they only wanted Steve's money, and wouldn't have hurt him, or his wife.
Whatever they MAYBE wanted is irrelevant. Are you seriously suggesting Steve should have waited until he or his wife were actually stabbed before responding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
No. That's because I'm not stupid.
Well, it IS a stretch to say you're merely ignorant because this issue has been discussed repeatedly...
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Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Charging a gun with a knife strikes me as eminently stupid.
Yes, it IS stupid, but criminals are not exactly noted for their IQs...
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Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
If you say so. You all agree that shooting someone in the leg is impossible, then?
Impossible? No - nothing is impossible. Highly improbable and an incredibly retarded thing to attempt when under stress? Yep.
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Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
You had me on ignore because of your delicate stomach.
No, i had you on ignore because you're an ...oh nevermind....
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Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
I said I believe a warning shot is enough to deter unarmed assailants, address that, not the metaphor.
Its BEEN addressed ad nauseum. Besides being stupid its also illegal and endangers others.
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Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Any physician will tell you that physiological responses vary from individual to individual. Maybe I just take longer than most people to emotionally process situations.
Again, lemme know how that works out for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
I've admitted no such thing. I don't know any adult who has never found himself or herself in a life-threatening situation. You may, of course, call bullshit.
Like i needed your permission.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
I'm trying to learn, but so far all I'm learning is fancy new insults.
If thats all you're learning its because you're ignoring the facts and data presented in favor of regurgitating oft-debunked fallacies.
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  #912 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Well, they might have stopped at that point, in which case you wouldn't have had to actually shoot, wouldn't you agree? Or they might have stopped after a warning shot, who knows?
They saw the gun.

They didn’t stop.

And, again, the idea of a “warning shot” is not only stupid, it’s improper use of a firearm. You would never take a firearms course in which “warning shots” are taught as a legitimate and proper use of a weapon…

Quote:
How would I know? I'm not you.
Exactly. I’m someone properly trained in the use of a firearm. I’ve shot tens of thousand of rounds over the span of over 30 years.

You’ve used a pistol once…

Quote:
I can only speculate on what I would have done in that same situation, that is, I'd have started swinging when they got within knife range.
Four on one?

That’s not brave, that’s stupid…

Quote:
Oh, please, what were they? Brain-eating zombies? A warning shot would definitely stop ME.
Do you spend a lot of time beating and robbing people?

I have no doubt that it would stop you

Quote:
Probably. Wouldn't miss a leg, though.
Yeah, you probably would…

Quote:
Well, I can defend myself fine without a firearm, as unlike you I've never had to face brain-eating zombies.
You’re going to fight off four armed assailants, and do it without a weapon?

Right…

Quote:
Additionally, I don't get the shakes.
You have absolutely no clue how your body would react in such a situation. If I were a bettin’ man, though, I’d put a lot of money on your acquiring a nifty case of the shakes…

Quote:
That is, I do get them, but only when I'm not actually in danger, such as when I have to prepare for a difficult interview.
Again, you have no idea how your body would react if you were in the same situation I found myself in. You have no idea how badly you’d shake, or how much you’d sweat…

Quote:
What do you suggest I do? Go get mugged? I don't have a gun...
That’s entirely up to you.

I’ve never been mugged. I’ve been almost mugged once…
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  #913 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2007
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EricOKC EricOKC is offline
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Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
I doubt that. I think the warning shot is mandatory in France, in case the assailants didn't see the gun.
Hey, for all I know, it may be. I dont much care about the self-defense laws of a nation with an historical