Do You Carry A Gun? - Page 67 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

AdrienXII · #**991** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatech

Now, if your weapon is in your hand and the assailant is 20 feet away, that's another story. But who walks around with a gun in their hand?

And who charges people with a knife without cause or some kind of prior exchange? Some kind of psychotic monster? Alright, it could happen, but it's likely you have a higher probability of being felled by a meteorite...

Steve · #**992** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricOKC

Matt's link on the Tueller drill might make you reconsider.

20' or less with a knife and whether you have a gun or not, you're getting cut - bad.

I don't think that's a given.

In the study, both the person with the gun and the "knife guy" knew the controls of the experiment.

On the street, though, nobody can be absolutely certain how someone else will react, and I think that changes the probable outcome greatly. In theory, yes, someone can cover that distance in a very short amount of time. But that's all it seems to measure.

What it doesn't measure, and which is what would greatly affect the accuracy of a knife attack, is the reaction of the "knife guy" when he sees, unexpectedly, a gun being drawn after he's covered only ten feet...

Wallaroo · #**993** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatech

A man with a knife in his hand can cover 20 feet in less than a second. People who train heavily with handguns routinely have to work very hard indeed to be able to draw and fire a handgun in under a second. Do the math.

I had a chum who was a marine medic. He trained all the time, a couple of times a week, specifically trying to drop the time it took him to draw and fire his pistol. The last time I talked to him, he was down to .78 seconds, consistently hitting his target.

So, if a man is 20 feet from you and your weapon is holstered, there is a strong possibility that you are going to get cut, and even cut badly. Whether or not you make him pay in kind is moot at that point, as the idea is to stop your assailant before you and your loved ones are harmed, correct?

Now, if your weapon is in your hand and the assailant is 20 feet away, that's another story. But who walks around with a gun in their hand?

I reckon that you are absolutely correct - its idiotic to carry a handgun in a shoulder holster. If I carried a handgun, then I would prefer to have it in the outer pocket of my jacket (a jacket with big pockets), and I would also prefer to have a round in the chamber. So if a bunch of nasty characters are nearby, then I could stick my hand in the pocket before they do anything without appear threatening. I would then be able to get the gun out in 1/3 of a second and put the safety off with my thumb. Using that procedure I most likely wouldnt come up short.

Wallaroo · #**994** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricOKC

Actually my friend - yes. At 20 feet, a man with a knife is as deadly, if not deadlier, than a man with a gun. That's what we're all trying to tell you - and to teach you.

Seems to me that the whole perception of time and space, as well as peoples physique, are much different in the U.S than in Europe.

Lets see - 20 feet must be around 6 - 7 meters. Is that the arm length of American criminals?

Steve · #**995** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallaroo

I reckon that you are absolutely correct - its idiotic to carry a handgun in a shoulder holster. If I carried a handgun, then I would prefer to have it in the outer pocket of my jacket (a jacket with big pockets), and I would also prefer to have a round in the chamber. So if a bunch of nasty characters are nearby, then I could stick my hand in the pocket before they do anything without appear threatening. I would then be able to get the gun out in 1/3 of a second and put the safety off with my thumb. Using that procedure I most likely wouldnt come up short.

This from the learned marksman Wallaroo...

Wallaroo · #**996** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricOKC

Do you have any proof to support your claim? I refuse to believe that a professional police force trains to recklessly discharge their weapons into the air, and further trains to attempt to inflict non-lethal wounds with lethal devices.

Seriously - you're going to have to provide more than just your assertions on such a ridiculous claim. This is on par with suggesting that Netherlanders are taught to drive with one hand on the wheel and one on an open bottle of hard alcohol, at night, with the lights off, while speeding through residential neighborhoods, and one foot out the window (without seatbelts of course).

I cannot think of a single logical reason why they would train their police force in tactics which would endanger the officer as well as the general public.

You can believe whatever the hell you want, but its the truth. They dont need to train warning shots - its just up in the air and doesnt take skill. The SOP in the danish police is indeed to shot people without firearms in the leg - if they pose a medium risk.

There were some major riots in a Copenhagen area back in 1993, where rebels throwed rocks at the police. 113 shots were fired by the police without anyone getting killed - warnings shots and leg shots mostly.

Some of it were caught on tape: YouTube - 18. maj 1993 NÃ¸rrebro

Wallaroo · #**997** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

This from the learned marksman Wallaroo...

Dont get too cocky just because you got yourself a new Kimber - you might have to go up agains me the next time!

crisis · #**998** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

This from the learned marksman Wallaroo...

You still assume everyone can be trusted to use their guns responsibly?

EricOKC · #**999** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdrienXII

And who charges people with a knife without cause or some kind of prior exchange? Some kind of psychotic monster? Alright, it could happen, but it's likely you have a higher probability of being felled by a meteorite...

Criminals my friend - criminals. Do they immediately charge? Not typically, but if they're advancing toward you with weapons in their hands...

Ultimately this isn't the issue though. Bottom line is, people carry guns (legally) for a long list of reasons which ultimately come down to a personal choice. You may disagree with their reasoning, but unless and until they commit an illegal act with the firearm, it really isn't any of your business.

EricOKC · #**1000** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisis

You still assume everyone can be trusted to use their guns responsibly?

The onus is upon you to prove they cannot.

Until someone does something irresponsible, you have to assume they are acting responsibly.

That's how it works in this country, YMMV.

crisis · #**1001** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricOKC

The onus is upon you to prove they cannot.

Until someone does something irresponsible, you have to assume they are acting responsibly.

That's how it works in this country, YMMV.

The proof is everywhere. Wallaroo is but one example. You are another.
I assume many will act irresponsibly in this as they will in most other things.

EricOKC · #**1002** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisis

The proof is everywhere. Wallaroo is but one example. You are another.
I assume many will act irresponsibly in this as they will in most other things.

How exactly am I proof of that? Nothing I have said or done would lead any reasonable objective observer to believe I am irresponsible with a firearm.

Wallaroo, while obviously rather ignorant of firearms, has not given me any indication he would be irresponsible with them. He obviously doesn't know jack about them, but he does seem to be willing to learn and I get the distinct impression he would take all reasonable precautions once he learned the facts.

Really all you have to make your judgment crisis, is your own irrational hatred of guns and those who own and carry them. That is hardly a sound basis for your conclusion.

Steve · #**1003** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisis

You still assume everyone can be trusted to use their guns responsibly?

Either show where I ever said something like that, or stop making up stupid shit just to try to make your point...

SomeMarine · #**1004** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Carrying a gun in my current location is illegal, so I don't carry a gun. I do, however, carry a knife almost everywhere.

CYDdharta · #**1005** (**permalink**) 12-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeMarine

Carrying a gun in my current location is illegal, so I don't carry a gun. I do, however, carry a knife almost everywhere.

Where are you, DC, California, or New Jersey?

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