People have used this thread:

Whats your favorite firearm?

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Election 2008 – Addicted to Placebos

You and most other Americans eh? Teh master of exaggeration and generalisation is at it again!

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An exhaustive review of more than 600,000 Iraqi documents that were captured after the 2003 U.S. invasion has found no evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime had any operational links with Osama bin Laden's al Qaida terrorist network.

Ah yes - because it makes so much logical sense to believe the majority of Americans welcome the condescending observations and directives of ignorant Aussies.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

What makes me ignorant?

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An exhaustive review of more than 600,000 Iraqi documents that were captured after the 2003 U.S. invasion has found no evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime had any operational links with Osama bin Laden's al Qaida terrorist network.

You insist upon remaining completely uninformed of facts, law, history and reality on this topic and therefore express opinions which appear to be naive at best.

Arguably, calling you "ignorant" is being polite. Applying the more accurate term of "stupid" would be a needless (and wasted) violation of forum rules.

(Ignorance is an absence of knowledge and is quite curable. Stupidity is a condition created when one knows the facts yet refuses to accept them. It is incurable (and frequently fatal))

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Actually from your point of view stupidity would be exactly the definition you are looking for. A position you have attained by adhering exactly to those same principals. And don’t worry I am not one to go whining to moderators when people incapable of objective debate resort to personal abuse.

I am aware of many facts. I have informed myself and been informed by others. I read what is posted and then dig into the sources and surrounding information to verify or dismiss that which others may claim as fact. I don’t profess to know everything and I may be wrong in some instances on certain points but I research my answers and claims before I post them as opposed to the lazy style of many others who merely make ignorant and stupid claims and declare them as facts. Just because someone believes something or wants to believe it themselves does not make it a fact. Much of what you claim as fact is merely your obstinate dogmatic belief.

And as usual your post is broad, general and empty.

What actual facts am I ignorant of with relation to what I posted and you responded to? What law and what history?

How would moving there improve my knowledge of these things to the extent that I would make any different observations that I have?

And as for your bleating about my critiquing of your politics, that is a direct result of you and your fellow gun proliferation advocates being unable to debate gun proliferation objectively. YOU are the ones who bring up your gun laws as though they support your philosophy and it is extremely hypocritical for you to turn around and whine if I then address them.
I will be more than happy to debate the advantages vs the consequences of gun proliferation without that deliberate diversion being thrown up any time you are ready.

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An exhaustive review of more than 600,000 Iraqi documents that were captured after the 2003 U.S. invasion has found no evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime had any operational links with Osama bin Laden's al Qaida terrorist network.

I don't think it would be an exaggeration at all to claim that most americans don't care what other nations think of us.

So, I take it you are against private gun ownership?

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"Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves." ~ Lord Byron

That’s fair enough but the discussion generally starts out with the pros and cons of gun proliferation and ends up with pro gunners resorting to “it’s part of our constitution” followed by various throw away tired clichés and then onto the "we don’t care what you think of our country" surrounded by various personal insults. I actually don’t care about your country and I am only dragged into that debate when they run out of genuine debate about the broader issue.

As far as "for or against" private gun ownership my current view, until I can be shown otherwise, is that widespread public gun proliferation has a more detrimental effect on a society over a broad range of issues than it does good.
My views are variously covered in this and other threads if it is of any interest to you.

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An exhaustive review of more than 600,000 Iraqi documents that were captured after the 2003 U.S. invasion has found no evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime had any operational links with Osama bin Laden's al Qaida terrorist network.

What is the 'detrimental effect'?

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"Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves." ~ Lord Byron

The ease in which people can get hold of guns. Where a gun is used in an act of violence it is potentially far more lethal than any other weapon this the harm that can be caused is increased.
The resultant deaths of accidental discharges. Deaths and injuries that could never be cause in the absence of a gun.

“Child safety is an important issue. Firearms injury is the second leading cause of non-natural death in childhood and adolescence. (CDC, 2004) Accidental shooting deaths are most commonly associated with one or more children playing with a gun they found in the home. (Choi, et al, 1994) The person pulling the trigger is a friend, family member, or the victim. (Harruff, 1992) In the period from 1979 to 2000, accidental firearms deaths involving children declined in the U.S., aided by child access prevention laws and felony prosecution of offenders. (Hepburn et al, 2006)”


Firearms Deaths by Mode of Death for Children <15 Years of Age
Top 10 Countries - Rate per 100,000




The use in suicide where again they are the most lethal, convenient and easy method.
“The number of firearms injuries remains high in the United States, compared with most of the rest of the world. Firearm suicide rates are strongly impacted by the rate of gun ownership. (Kaplan and Geling, 1998) There is a positive correlation between homicide rates and availability of guns in developed nations.”http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

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An exhaustive review of more than 600,000 Iraqi documents that were captured after the 2003 U.S. invasion has found no evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime had any operational links with Osama bin Laden's al Qaida terrorist network.

You're talking about 1.5 or so per 100,000.

Look at the stats for sports, or autos.

Or don't, if you prefer.

Bottom line, you don't live here, and you have no say whatsoever about it.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Twelve deaths in 18 months for eventing (only one of the equestrian sports). Ban horses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/sp...strian.html?em

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Statistics and causes
The definitive source for US injury death statistics is the Centers For Disease Control National Center for Injury Prevention & Control website which provides statistics on all deaths by injury, not just gun deaths. To get the number of gun deaths for a year just set the Cause of Injury to Firearm. If you only want to know the number of child gun deaths per year then choose the custom age range and input 0 years ( <1 ) as the lowest age and 17 years as the top age. Be sure to select "No Age-Adjusting Requested" if you are only interested in a particular age group.

Note that the CDC child gun death figures are typically half of the figures that the gun control lobby publishes. The difference is in the definition of a child. The gun control lobby counts young adults that are 18 or 19 years old as children, but they do not count 20 year olds as children. You can choose from one of two possible reasons, depending on your level of cynicism: 1. The standard CDC age groups used to go from 0-19, 20-39, etc and the gun control lobby couldn't figure out how to select a custom age group. 2. Counting 18 and 19 year olds as children doubles the number of so-called child gun deaths, and more child gun deaths means more support for gun control.

In 1999 there were 1776 gun deaths in the 0 through 17 age group and 3385 gun deaths in the 0 through 19 age group. By subtraction we find that there were a whopping 1609 gun deaths in just the 18 through 19 age group. Historically the 18 through 24 age group is the highest crime-committing group. At age 18 part-time drug dealers leave school and become full-time drug dealers. Despite the propaganda from the gun control lobby, criminals in general and drug dealers in particular are the group of so-called children most likely to be shot by their fellow criminals. You can verify this by reading the local gun death news stories in any city newspaper. School shootings are so rare that every one gets national television coverage, but drug dealers are shot so often that they are barely mentioned in their local newspaper.

Older people's gun deaths are most likely to be suicides. Suicides typically make up 56.5% of all gun deaths according to the Bureau Of Justice Statistics. In fact, drugs and suicides account for more than 2 out of every 3 gun deaths in the USA.

The best way to prevent gun deaths is to treat depression and other mental illness, teach children not to sell or use illegal drugs, treat drug addiction, and have police concentrate on enforcing drug laws. However, the gun control lobby says that we should spend billions of dollars on gun registration and gun licensing instead of using the money to treat depression and combat drugs. Click here for some sensible ways to prevent gun violence.

The accidental gun death rate has been falling since 1930 and US accidental gun deaths per year were down to 824 by 1999 according to the CDC. Note that it is extremely easy to prevent accidental gun deaths by following Jeff Cooper's Four Rules Of Gun Safety. Click here for a free downloadable brochure that illustrates the four rules.

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"Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves." ~ Lord Byron

All different. I don’t live there.


A good point for a separate discussion.

Can you two only think in such broad and general terms. Like if you can’t address everything perfectly then don’t address anything? Perhaps then we could use that rationale(?) for drugs. We can’t eradicate the effects of drugs so let’s NOT ban any of them? Work for you?

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An exhaustive review of more than 600,000 Iraqi documents that were captured after the 2003 U.S. invasion has found no evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime had any operational links with Osama bin Laden's al Qaida terrorist network.

Sure, but the legalization of drugs is another topic. Try to stick to the subject at hand.

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"Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves." ~ Lord Byron