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Gun Rights and Security Issues Gun Control, Crime, Drugs, Defence, Homeland Security, Immigration, Law Enforcement

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey_Left View Post
No way man, most snakes are useful, especially on farms and stuff.

Live in a big old house? Don't have any mice? Probably means you have a snake.

This clearly isn't a case where gun control would have helped. Even most of the hardcore gun control type people in the US would not advocate Cops not being armed. I know it's different in UK and Australia and the like, but I think most of us want our cops armed here.

No doubt Mr. Police Officer feels super terrible, as would any semi-human creature, but that doesn't mean he should be punished. On the contrary, he should absolutely be punished for two reasons. One, as Eric pointed out, he should face the same music as ordinary gun owners, and two, it needs to be clear that while yes, you can own your gun, you MUST be responsible with it.

Forgot my sarcasm tags again. I like snakes. I was mountain biking a few years ago and came across a little rattler (maybe 18" long) sunning on the trail. I scared him off the trail so that nobody else would hurt him.


I can only imagine how horrible the officer must feel, but he also needs to take responsibility for his actions. ANYONE who shoots should know exactly where their bullets are going to end up. Choosing to fire at a snake in a tree (hissing or not) was piss-poor judgement, and the officer should be criminally charged.

Scary when EricOKC and I are agreeing on something, eh?

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

Hell, you're agreeing with me too, how horror-show!
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

Quote:
Documented deaths resulting from snake bites are uncommon (about 1/1000 in most areas of the world. Only about 450 species of snakes are venomous (with only about 250 that are able to kill a human), and among the 7,000 Americans bitten by venomous snakes every year, fewer than fifteen die.
Snake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was absolutely no reason for this officer to shoot at that snake. None. At all.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Mod View Post
Snake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was absolutely no reason for this officer to shoot at that snake. None. At all.
Unless he wanted to actually kill the child or the father.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
Wlessard Wlessard is offline
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

The one thing in this whole article and discussion that strikes me is this.

No matter how careful you are, or how good you are at something you can never predict everything.

He was shooting up into a tree. The bullets went and unfortunately found a child.

Did the officer act rashly and beyond the scope of his duties? That is what the investigation will turn up. If he is found to have acted outside of his duties or rashly I would say prosecute him.

For some reason in this country people cannot accept accidents. When you drive down the road and your tire blows out causing a pileup and possible death the first thing people yell is the manufacturers fault and they want to sue. Accident happen. Things beyond your control cause problems, pain and sometimes death. To prejudge anyone is wrong and completely against our system of Innocent until proven guilty.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wlessard View Post
The one thing in this whole article and discussion that strikes me is this.

No matter how careful you are, or how good you are at something you can never predict everything.

He was shooting up into a tree. The bullets went and unfortunately found a child.

Did the officer act rashly and beyond the scope of his duties? That is what the investigation will turn up. If he is found to have acted outside of his duties or rashly I would say prosecute him.

For some reason in this country people cannot accept accidents. When you drive down the road and your tire blows out causing a pileup and possible death the first thing people yell is the manufacturers fault and they want to sue. Accident happen. Things beyond your control cause problems, pain and sometimes death. To prejudge anyone is wrong and completely against our system of Innocent until proven guilty.

This isn't a tire blowing out. This is a purposeful act by a trained shooter. There's a significant difference.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wlessard View Post
The one thing in this whole article and discussion that strikes me is this.

No matter how careful you are, or how good you are at something you can never predict everything.

He was shooting up into a tree. The bullets went and unfortunately found a child.

Did the officer act rashly and beyond the scope of his duties? That is what the investigation will turn up. If he is found to have acted outside of his duties or rashly I would say prosecute him.

For some reason in this country people cannot accept accidents. When you drive down the road and your tire blows out causing a pileup and possible death the first thing people yell is the manufacturers fault and they want to sue. Accident happen. Things beyond your control cause problems, pain and sometimes death. To prejudge anyone is wrong and completely against our system of Innocent until proven guilty.
If you are a police officer trained in the use of a fire arm, you don't make these mistakes. It is not acceptable to just call it an accident.

If it were two civilians, maybe they would have some leeway, because they might not have had the extensive training that the officer did. But there is absolutely no excuse for this police officer.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Mod View Post
Snake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was absolutely no reason for this officer to shoot at that snake. None. At all.
It was the folk who owned the house who insisted on the snake being removed by all accounts.

We don't actually know what snake it was or how dangerous it could have been yet.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

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Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
It was the folk who owned the house who insisted on the snake being removed by all accounts.
Irrelevant. The police do not have to act on every homeowner's whim.

Quote:
We don't actually know what snake it was or how dangerous it could have been yet.
Irrelevant. Even if it had been a cobra, it was contained in the tree, and was not a clear and imminent danger to anyone.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wlessard View Post
The one thing in this whole article and discussion that strikes me is this.

No matter how careful you are, or how good you are at something you can never predict everything.

He was shooting up into a tree. The bullets went and unfortunately found a child.

Did the officer act rashly and beyond the scope of his duties? That is what the investigation will turn up. If he is found to have acted outside of his duties or rashly I would say prosecute him.

For some reason in this country people cannot accept accidents. When you drive down the road and your tire blows out causing a pileup and possible death the first thing people yell is the manufacturers fault and they want to sue. Accident happen. Things beyond your control cause problems, pain and sometimes death. To prejudge anyone is wrong and completely against our system of Innocent until proven guilty.
Pulling the trigger on a handgun in this circumstance was not, by any stretch of the imagination, an accident. As anyone familiar with firearms will agree, it was pure negligence resulting in a tragic death. It's as simple as you always know where the bullet will go or you don't pull the trigger, a basic in firearms safety that any LE member would be familiar with.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
chathamfarmer chathamfarmer is offline
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

Some asshole was shooting at a snake and accidently kills a kid. What a dumbfuck. He should go to jail for manslaughter.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Irrelevant. The police do not have to act on every homeowner's whim.
They do have that whole public safety thing to worry about, if the snake was deemed a threat to the folk living in the house obviously they did have to act. Obviously the choice they made of how to do it is questionable.

Quote:
Irrelevant. Even if it had been a cobra, it was contained in the tree, and was not a clear and imminent danger to anyone.
Nonsense, the report said the snake was hissing at them and wasn't contained.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
It's as simple as you always know where the bullet will go or you don't pull the trigger, a basic in firearms safety that any LE member would be familiar with.
Shit, I'm not even a huge gun person (only shoot them at a range once every other year or so) and even I know what the deal is.

If I took the shot this officer did, my dad would've thrown me into a vat of acid (my dad being the one responsible for teaching me proper gun safety).
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
They do have that whole public safety thing to worry about, if the snake was deemed a threat to the folk living in the house obviously they did have to act. Obviously the choice they made of how to do it is questionable.
They chose to deal with the 'dangerous' situation by making it way, way, way more dangerous. This would be like trying to get rid of a hornets nest using 10 tons of TNT.

And what about animal control? Don't they have ways of dealing with this? And seriously, why didn't they pepper spray the snake? Those spray cans have quite a bit of distance to them and there's a chance it would've disoriented the snake, allowing for capture. Why didn't they climb the tree and shake the branch? Why didn't they try and knock it out with a stick? If the answer was 'the snake was too high up', then it was even less of a threat!

Quote:
Nonsense, the report said the snake was hissing at them and wasn't contained.
Do you know how many uncontained, hissing snakes there are in nature? Lots.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007
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Re: Stupidity + firearm --> dead kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Mod View Post
They chose to deal with the 'dangerous' situation by making it way, way, way more dangerous. This would be like trying to get rid of a hornets nest using 10 tons of TNT.
How, if they killed the snake the threat was gone....right?

Quote:
And what about animal control? Don't they have ways of dealing with this?
Well like i've said we have no way of knowing whether they contacted animal control or not. Or if they radio'd it in or not.

Quote:
And seriously, why didn't they pepper spray the snake? Those spray cans have quite a bit of distance to them and there's a chance it would've disoriented the snake, allowing for capture.
Who's to say they didn't try it and it didn't work?

Quote:
Why didn't they climb the tree and shake the branch? Why didn't they try and knock it out with a stick? If the answer was 'the snake was too high up', then it was even less of a threat!
no my assumption is that they were afriad for their own lives if they deemed it to be that dangerous they had to shoot at it. I think they would have shot it as the kast resort no?

Quote:
Do you know how many uncontained, hissing snakes there are in nature? Lots.
A tree on someone's property isn't exactly nature is it? Its not exactly miles away from people....
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