Yep. I am having trouble understand how a person with any sense can agree with most of Bush's policies.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

I think that is a VERY dangerous position to take.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

I am what most people would consider a conservative and I agree with you.

It's also incorrect from a legal standpoint. This has been well documented on this very forum in other threads.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

How so? Only the children of illegal immigrants would be effected.

Respectfully, I question that. I could be wrong though. Can you post the source?

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Serious Quotes:


Funny But True Quotes
Those who argue for complete secularism are funny. They see what government does and then argue that we don't need it to start with prayer.

Because it opens the floodgates to all sorts of other problems, starting with the definition of citizenship.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

I'll be away from the machine for a bit, but I'll go looking for it when I get a chance.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

This should serve as a starter, though:

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

How does it do that?

Well, I was actually talking about whether or not citizenship should be granted to the child of an illegal immigrant. The opening clause of the 14th amendment declares already what it takes to be a citizen of the US. (This is why I am confused about pramjockey's comments) Basically, 1. the person must be either born or naturalized here and 2. the person must be subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. If a person meets these two criteria then they are a citizen. My stipulation is that the children of illegal immigrants not subject to the jurisdiction of the US.

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Serious Quotes:


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Those who argue for complete secularism are funny. They see what government does and then argue that we don't need it to start with prayer.

If they're not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, they can't be held liable for any criminal activities here.

In addition, there's a bigger problem of redefining citizenship. What other limitations will we put on people who are born here? Turning citizenship into a political thing, IMHO, is very dangerous.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

I would think it would be quite easy to redefine citizenship as belonging to any child of a citizen who is a resident of the United States. Or of course a person who has become a naturalized citizen.

So, a child born to parents who live outside the US, but who are legal residents would be a citizen? What if only one parent is a citizen, i.e. a soldier has sex with a man while deployed, and gets pregnant. At what point does the child become a citizen?


edit: the other consideration: proving who the father is. Do we require paternity tests for all children born to make sure that the father is a legal resident?

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

I think we're talking past each other. That's a different definition of the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction". This is the way I understand it:

FAIR: : Anchor Babies: The Children of Illegal Aliens

Now, perhaps I'm wrong. It could be. If so then I propose that we pass a Constitutional amendment that makes the children of illegal immigrants not citizens.

How is it redefining? The 14th amendment says that a person must be "born or naturalized" here and "subject to the jurisdiction" of the country in order to be a citizen.

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Those who argue for complete secularism are funny. They see what government does and then argue that we don't need it to start with prayer.

Actually, no.

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Serious Quotes:


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Those who argue for complete secularism are funny. They see what government does and then argue that we don't need it to start with prayer.

I'm paring this down, 'cause it seems like this is the meat of your post.

What do you do if one parent is legal, and the other illegal? Does it matter if it's the father that's the legal one vs. the mother?

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears