Good idea or American style propaganda? - Page 3 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

Slon · #31 (**permalink**) 08-30-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by proUSA

It's an article from 2003 that ended up being nothing. We lost no rights..er...let me restate that: "We honest people lost nothing".

What are you talking about?

Quote:

A. You could go into 40 things. I'll give you just some examples. It gives the government the right to do "sneak and peek" searches in your house. In other words, they can come in and search your house, and they don't have to tell you they were there. It does away with a lot of the Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure. . . . It gives a definition of domestic terrorism that says if there are two or more individuals, a crime has been committed if you're trying to get the government to change a policy. . . . And then there's "Carnivore," where they can go through everything on your computer.

Want to explain how that equals "We lost no rights?"

Steve · #32 (**permalink**) 08-30-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by pramjockey

How about the last 30 years? Last 50?

As expected, you've dodged the question.

Why is it a bad idea?

proUSA · #33 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slon

What are you talking about?

Want to explain how that equals "We lost no rights?"

It's a shame that your source wasn't specific on what part of the Patriot Act violates this right.....
I skimmed down through the Patriot Act and couldn't find anything that allowed the cops to search our homes without proper cause; the courts still have to grant a search warrant.

proUSA · #34 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

And before you go any further Slon, this thread isn't about the Patriot Act and so I am finished, unless the debate is on terrorism plans.

Slon · #35 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by proUSA

It's a shame that your source wasn't specific on what part of the Patriot Act violates this right.....
I skimmed down through the Patriot Act and couldn't find anything that allowed the cops to search our homes without proper cause; the courts still have to grant a search warrant.

Quote:

The USA Patriot Act’s Authorization of Sneak and Peek Warrants

Section 213 of the USA Patriot Act,11 enacted on Oct. 26, 2001, contains the first express statutory authorization for the issuance of sneak and peek search warrants in American history. Section 213 is not restricted to terrorists or terrorism offenses; it may used in connection with any federal crime, including misdemeanors. Section 213 is one of the provisions of the USA Patriot Act excepted from the Act’s sunset provisions.12 To the extent Section 213 may conflict with Rule 41, Section 213 prevails.13

Section 213 amends 18 U. S. C. § 3103a, relating to warrants for the search and seizure of evidence of federal crimes, by adding the following: “With respect to the issuance of any warrant or court order under this section, or any other rule of law, to search for and seize any property or material that constitutes evidence of a criminal offense in violation of the laws of the United States, any notice required, or that may be required, to be given may be delayed if ... (1) the court finds reasonable cause to believe that providing immediate notification of the execution of the warrant may have an adverse result (as defined in section 2705); (2) the warrant prohibits the seizure of any tangible property ... except where the court finds reasonable necessity for the seizure; and (3) the warrant provides for the giving of such notice within a reasonable period of its execution, which period may thereafter be extended by the court for good cause shown.”14

SNEAK AND PEEK SEARCH WARRANTS AND THE USA PATRIOT ACT - Professor Wilkes - University of Georgia School of Law

pramjockey · #36 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

As expected, you've dodged the question.

Why is it a bad idea?

If nothing else, because it desensitizes the public such that if there is a real security problem, they're less likely to act.

Kind of like that stupid color code system. We've bounced from yellow to orange and back several times. Does anyone even pay attention any more?

Speakeasy · #37 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by pramjockey

If nothing else, because it desensitizes the public such that if there is a real security problem, they're less likely to act.

Kind of like that stupid color code system. We've bounced from yellow to orange and back several times. Does anyone even pay attention any more?

Geez, I had actually forgotten about that thing. Do they even still use it?

pramjockey · #38 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

They do. Kind of funny, huh?

DHS | Homeland Security Advisory System

We're currently yellow. WTF does that mean, anyway?

Speakeasy · #39 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by pramjockey

They do. Kind of funny, huh?

DHS | Homeland Security Advisory System

We're currently yellow. WTF does that mean, anyway?

Significant risk of a terrorist attack!?!? Dear god, no!

What is a "General risk of a terrorist attack"? It sounds hilariously casual.

pramjockey · #40 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

I was wondering that myself.

Given that there's been a significant risk for, what, 4 1/2 years now, don't you think something would have happened by now?

Rakkasan · #41 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

good idea..............if someone feels its propaganda turn the channel, thats what i do when clinton commercials come on

pramjockey · #42 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

Election seasons make me even more glad that I have TiVo. No commercials, period.

Americano · #43 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speakeasy

Geez, I had actually forgotten about that thing. Do they even still use it?

Once a government fiefdom, pardon me bureaucracy, is established it only grows, it never goes away.

Rakkasan · #44 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

you know just got done watching LINK TV's: Mosaic

if people think this is propaganda go watch that , you will see real propaganda, wow, and some in america think your media is bad

wow is all i can say totally one sided totally bullshit

Steve · #45 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by pramjockey

If nothing else, because it desensitizes the public such that if there is a real security problem, they're less likely to act.

Do you honestly believe that?

Do you have an emergency plan for your family in case your house catches fire? Depending on where you live, do you have one in the event of a hurricane, eartquake, or tornado?

My family has them for fires and earthquakes. Now, having lived out here for over 20 years, we've only been evacuated from our home once, for a fire four years ago.

Having the plan, though, didn't "desensitize" us to anything. What it allowed us to do was react to an emergency in a reasonable, non-hectic manner.

I don't see the difference, from a technical standpoint, in an emergency plan for a natural disaster and an emergency plan for a terrorist attack. Granted, the cause of each is very different, but the resulting panic and disarray would be, I think, quite the same...

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