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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2007
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Do you honestly believe that?
Yep. It's pretty classic conditioning psychology. Been science for 50-some years (or more, can't remember off the top of my head when Skinner was around).

Quote:
Do you have an emergency plan for your family in case your house catches fire? Depending on where you live, do you have one in the event of a hurricane, eartquake, or tornado?
Well, in case of fire, it's "get the fuck out, hopefully the cat follows." The rest? Nope. Earthquakes are remarkably rare and mild. Hurricanes don't reach here. Tornadoes are mild and don't generally run into the mountains. We keep some food in the house that we could use for blizzards, I guess.

Quote:
My family has them for fires and earthquakes. Now, having lived out here for over 20 years, we've only been evacuated from our home once, for a fire four years ago.
IIRC you have children. I think this is a very good idea, and I applaud you for your preparedness.

Quote:
Having the plan, though, didn't "desensitize" us to anything. What it allowed us to do was react to an emergency in a reasonable, non-hectic manner.
Perhaps. Are all of your plans the same? Are they pretty straightforward? What plans would you need for a terrorist attack? Are they any different?

Quote:
I don't see the difference, from a technical standpoint, in an emergency plan for a natural disaster and an emergency plan for a terrorist attack. Granted, the cause of each is very different, but the resulting panic and disarray would be, I think, quite the same...
I'm apparently not communicating very well. I'm not saying preparedness is bad. I'm saying that beating that pulp of a horse corpse with "the ter'rists are comin!" is desensitizing. Should a family have some sort of plan for evacuation and rendez-vous, especially if there's kids involved? Absolutely. Do we need the constant barrages about remarkably unlikely events like da ter'rists? I'd say no.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2007
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I don't see the difference, from a technical standpoint, in an emergency plan for a natural disaster and an emergency plan for a terrorist attack. Granted, the cause of each is very different, but the resulting panic and disdarray would be, I think, quite the same...
With one exception, I agree with that. We're prepared with two basic plans, staying in the residence and evacuation. In the event of evacuation, forest fires being our concern, a great feature of a private website is having all important papers/photos/etc. scanned and on a remote, secure server. Everything else is insured, with a detailed inventory including photos of personal property also on the server. One suitcase, plenty of cash and 4x4 wheels will do it for us.

The planning exception would be remaining in place of residence with regard to population density and accessibility. More 00 buckshot and extra clips for the submachine guns near the hood and extra medium/long range ammo in a rural setting. I'd be more concerned with potential looting than terrorists.

I live on a mountainside in a very rural setting and can't get interested in the potential of a terrorist attack, government propaganda or for real.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
I live on a mountainside in a very rural setting and can't get interested in the potential of a terrorist attack, government propaganda or for real.
So does your personal situation mean that those living in other areas shouldn't be prepared?
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
With one exception, I agree with that. We're prepared with two basic plans, staying in the residence and evacuation. In the event of evacuation, forest fires being our concern, a great feature of a private website is having all important papers/photos/etc. scanned and on a remote, secure server. Everything else is insured, with a detailed inventory including photos of personal property also on the server. One suitcase, plenty of cash and 4x4 wheels will do it for us.

The planning exception would be remaining in place of residence with regard to population density and accessibility. More 00 buckshot and extra clips for the submachine guns near the hood and extra medium/long range ammo in a rural setting. I'd be more concerned with potential looting than terrorists.

I live on a mountainside in a very rural setting and can't get interested in the potential of a terrorist attack, government propaganda or for real.
so since you have already built and live in your "anti government" mountian style retreat ......all others shouldnt plan for any type of attacks/disasters?
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Yep. It's pretty classic conditioning psychology. Been science for 50-some years (or more, can't remember off the top of my head when Skinner was around).
But that doesn't make any sense. We teach children, from a young age, how to be prepared and what to do in the event of a fire. Does this "desensitize" them to it?

Quote:
Well, in case of fire, it's "get the fuck out, hopefully the cat follows."
I was actually referring not to a house fire, but to a wildfire. Here in San Diego, we hear the same things, every year, that we should do to help protect our homes. Those repeated warnings don't "desensitize" us to the threat of fire.

How, then, would the suggestion that we be prepared for a terrorist attack "desensitize" us to that threat?

Quote:
Are all of your plans the same? Are they pretty straightforward? What plans would you need for a terrorist attack? Are they any different?
Our plans are very flexible. For a wildfire, for instance, we have to react very differently if a fire comes from the south or the west, simply due to the lack of escape routes to the north and east.

Our plan for a terrorist attack is different than the one we have for a fire, in that it doesn't involve us evacuating our home. In fact, it has us returning to our home.

All of the plans are pretty straight-forward, though...

Quote:
I'm not saying preparedness is bad. I'm saying that beating that pulp of a horse corpse with "the ter'rists are comin!" is desensitizing. Should a family have some sort of plan for evacuation and rendez-vous, especially if there's kids involved? Absolutely. Do we need the constant barrages about remarkably unlikely events like da ter'rists? I'd say no.
Back in the 60's, I was a little kid. I can remember the "stop, drop and roll" drills we did in case we were on fire. I still remember the drills we did in school in case there was a nuclear attack.

Neither of those things ever happened, yet we were taught what to do in case they did.

Unfortunately, there will be a day when someone, somewhere in this country, will benefit from the fact that they saw those commercials about being prepared for a terrorist attack and did something to have a "plan".

I don't have a problem with that.

It's becoming more clear, though, that you do...
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
So does your personal situation mean that those living in other areas shouldn't be prepared?
Aside from normal preparation in the event of a natural disaster, what can they actually do to prepare for a potential terrorist attack? Talk about it? Logic says any such attack would be after big numbers, concentrated groups of people, and/or infrastructure such as utilities, which pretty much takes residential targets and individual preparation out of the equation. What happens if a red alert is declared or an attack takes place at 5pm on a commuter work day with metropolitan roadways resembling large holding areas for packed vehicles moving at 10mph? Aside from maybe a portable helicopter, how does one prepare for that emergency?

Life goes on regardless of government propaganda attempting to sway citizenry into a siege mentality to rationalize colonial style foreign policy benefiting only special interests.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

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Originally Posted by Rakkasan View Post
so since you have already built and live in your "anti government" mountian style retreat ......all others shouldnt plan for any type of attacks/disasters?
I don't understand the anti-government comment.

While they certainly should be prepared for defined natural disasters, what can they plan for in the event of a terrorist attack? A card game until authorities resolve the unknown aftermath of a terrorist attack?
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
Aside from normal preparation in the event of a natural disaster, what can they actually do to prepare for a potential terrorist attack? Talk about it? Logic says any such attack would be after big numbers, concentrated groups of people, and/or infrastructure such as utilities, which pretty much takes residential targets and individual preparation out of the equation. What happens if a red alert is declared or an attack takes place at 5pm on a commuter work day with metropolitan roadways resembling large holding areas for packed vehicles moving at 10mph? Aside from maybe a portable helicopter, how does one prepare for that emergency?

Life goes on regardless of government propaganda attempting to sway citizenry into a siege mentality to rationalize colonial style foreign policy benefiting only special interests.
You said so much, yet never even flirted with the idea of coming close to answering the question...
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
You said so much, yet never even flirted with the idea of coming close to answering the question...
I asked you to clarify what preparation could be taken to cope with a terrorist attack. When you answer that, I'll provide my opinion on the feasibility and potential effectiveness of such preparation.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
I don't understand the anti-government comment.

While they certainly should be prepared for defined natural disasters, what can they plan for in the event of a terrorist attack? A card game until authorities resolve the unknown aftermath of a terrorist attack?
if you think that a this campaign is propaganda , then you are pretty anti governement or atleast anti this government
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
I don't understand the anti-government comment.

While they certainly should be prepared for defined natural disasters, what can they plan for in the event of a terrorist attack? A card game until authorities resolve the unknown aftermath of a terrorist attack?
Your position is puzzling.

You have no problem with someone being prepared for a natural disaster, but you seem to have a very big problem with the suggestion that people should be prepared for a terrorist attack. You've also failed to show why being prepared for a terrorist attack is a bad thing.

Like a wildfire or an earthquake, a terrorist attack is going to happen. Being prepared means knowing how you'll react, what you'll have your family do, etc., just like with a preparedness plan for a fire or flood.

When I lived in South Carolina, we always had one closet fully stocked with food, water, batteries, clothing, etc. Why? Well, we were susceptible to hurricanes, which would knock out power.

Power generating plants could most certainly be terrorist targets. If they are, and if they're hit, the power goes out. Now, someone like you is going be left in the dark with nothing but spoiling food. Someone like me will be able to provide lighting in my home and feed my family.

Being prepared for one isn't so different than being prepared for the other. I suspect, though, that the main reason people are speaking out against this is because of the politically-charged nature of it, and for no other reason.

That'll do you a lot of good while you're sitting in the dark going hungry...
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
I asked you to clarify what preparation could be taken to cope with a terrorist attack. When you answer that, I'll provide my opinion on the feasibility and potential effectiveness of such preparation.
Done.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Your position is puzzling.

You have no problem with someone being prepared for a natural disaster, but you seem to have a very big problem with the suggestion that people should be prepared for a terrorist attack. You've also failed to show why being prepared for a terrorist attack is a bad thing.

Like a wildfire or an earthquake, a terrorist attack is going to happen. Being prepared means knowing how you'll react, what you'll have your family do, etc., just like with a preparedness plan for a fire or flood.

When I lived in South Carolina, we always had one closet fully stocked with food, water, batteries, clothing, etc. Why? Well, we were susceptible to hurricanes, which would knock out power.

Power generating plants could most certainly be terrorist targets. If they are, and if they're hit, the power goes out. Now, someone like you is going be left in the dark with nothing but spoiling food. Someone like me will be able to provide lighting in my home and feed my family.

Being prepared for one isn't so different than being prepared for the other. I suspect, though, that the main reason people are speaking out against this is because of the politically-charged nature of it, and for no other reason.

That'll do you a lot of good while you're sitting in the dark going hungry...
IMO it is due to the fact that he believes it is all made up by BUSHCO

a common fault of those who hate bush
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

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Originally Posted by Rakkasan View Post
IMO it is due to the fact that he believes it is all made up by BUSHCO

a common fault of those who hate bush
No, without population concentration and accompanying infrastructure or a military facility nearby I'd be at the bottom of the list for conventional terrorist attacks.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Good idea or American style propaganda?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Your position is puzzling.

You have no problem with someone being prepared for a natural disaster, but you seem to have a very big problem with the suggestion that people should be prepared for a terrorist attack. You've also failed to show why being prepared for a terrorist attack is a bad thing.

Like a wildfire or an earthquake, a terrorist attack is going to happen. Being prepared means knowing how you'll react, what you'll have your family do, etc., just like with a preparedness plan for a fire or flood.

When I lived in South Carolina, we always had one closet fully stocked with food, water, batteries, clothing, etc. Why? Well, we were susceptible to hurricanes, which would knock out power.

Power generating plants could most certainly be terrorist targets. If they are, and if they're hit, the power goes out. Now, someone like you is going be left in the dark with nothing but spoiling food. Someone like me will be able to provide lighting in my home and feed my family.

Being prepared for one isn't so different than being prepared for the other. I suspect, though, that the main reason people are speaking out against this is because of the politically-charged nature of it, and for no other reason.

That'll do you a lot of good while you're sitting in the dark going hungry...
As I said, I can't get interested in preparation for a terrorist attack because I'm prepared for most natural disasters and can't understand how one would prepare for a terrorist attack. I have my own well, 425' deep with 13 gallons per minute of granite filtered sweet water, a 15KW generator with its own electrical panel tied into the house panels that automatically kicks in if incoming power drops below a certain point which runs everything in the lower floor of the house including the freezers, refrigerator, hot water tank and a six-month supply of propane. The main fireplace is a Fireplace Extraordinare airtight that takes 32" logs, has a fresh-air intake with fans directing heat off the box through vents into the house that when banked keeps the place at 75° with an outside temperature of 10° (last winter), five cords of split hardwood stacked under shelter (two winter supply), a large, full pantry, two 4x4 vehicles, one 700cc 4x4 ATV and so many deer and turkeys around the place that I consider them landscaping pests.

I'm agreeing with you in the sense that if one is adequately prepared for natural disasters and adding the proviso if away from population centers and military installations what additional preparation can be made for a potential terrorist attack? I consider the social ills of a meth freak looking for money/goods for the next bag of dope more of a potential danger to most people than a terrorist attack.
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