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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips View Post
Judges who make law rather than interpret law are activist judges.

Legislators make the law; judges interpret the Constitution.
So what constitutes the line between interpretation and and making laws? As far as I know the only new laws that have been passed are done by the legislative branch. Can you show me a specific law that was passed by judges?
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
Captain Trips Captain Trips is offline
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

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Originally Posted by partofme View Post
So what constitutes the line between interpretation and and making laws? As far as I know the only new laws that have been passed are done by the legislative branch. Can you show me a specific law that was passed by judges?
When court judgements become law:

The Supreme Court passed a decision regarding a black slave named Dred Scott, declaring his suit for freedom invalid. The court ruled that because he was of black African descent, he was not allowed to be free, nor did he qualify for citizenship.

Court decisions over the past few decades on gay marriage, affirmative action, assisted suicide, and campaign finance have prompted charges that the issues involved in these cases would have been more appropriately and effectively handled by state and federal legislators, in part because these figures could better foster the consensus, compromise, publicity, and public discussion needed to secure enduring political solutions to these matters.

In 2005, the Ninth Circuit Court ruled against parental rights, making it unlawful for students to be removed from sex education programs in school. It was a blatant example of judges making laws without any voter or legislative support. This decision was made shortly after the same court banned the Pledge of Allegiance.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips View Post
When court judgements become law:

The Supreme Court passed a decision regarding a black slave named Dred Scott, declaring his suit for freedom invalid. The court ruled that because he was of black African descent, he was not allowed to be free, nor did he qualify for citizenship.

Court decisions over the past few decades on gay marriage, affirmative action, assisted suicide, and campaign finance have prompted charges that the issues involved in these cases would have been more appropriately and effectively handled by state and federal legislators, in part because these figures could better foster the consensus, compromise, publicity, and public discussion needed to secure enduring political solutions to these matters.

In 2005, the Ninth Circuit Court ruled against parental rights, making it unlawful for students to be removed from sex education programs in school. It was a blatant example of judges making laws without any voter or legislative support. This decision was made shortly after the same court banned the Pledge of Allegiance.
That's still interpretation of existing law. New legislation was not passed.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by partofme View Post
So what constitutes the line between interpretation and and making laws? As far as I know the only new laws that have been passed are done by the legislative branch. Can you show me a specific law that was passed by judges?
Well it kinda starts with Marbury v. Madison and goes forth from there.

You cant be serious can you? Examples of the USSC overstepping its authority are legion.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

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Originally Posted by partofme View Post
Obviously you missed the whole part of separation of powers and checks and balances when you studied American government in school. The three branches are different for a reason.
Ultimately isn't the government accountable to the people they are supposed to serve. No need to for hostilities. This is a discussion board. A discussion is the free exchange of ideas. You obviously missed that in English class. (I don't enjoy making backhanded remarks. Please be respectful and encourage an enviroment that support intellectual conversation)
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

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Originally Posted by SamskyLLP View Post
Ultimately isn't the government accountable to the people they are supposed to serve.
Government is accountable to the Constitution, and not necessarily the people. We are a nation of laws afterall, and not men.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

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Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
Well it kinda starts with Marbury v. Madison and goes forth from there.

You cant be serious can you? Examples of the USSC overstepping its authority are legion.
I'm serious.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamskyLLP View Post
Ultimately isn't the government accountable to the people they are supposed to serve. No need to for hostilities. This is a discussion board. A discussion is the free exchange of ideas. You obviously missed that in English class. (I don't enjoy making backhanded remarks. Please be respectful and encourage an enviroment that support intellectual conversation)
Elected officials are but they are not in total control to protect minorities from tyranny of the majority and such. If all branches operated the same way then that would defeat the purpose of having separate branches.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

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Originally Posted by partofme View Post
Just because their decisions are different than that of the rest of the country doesn't mean they are wrong or do not believe they are constitutional.
As a matter of fact, yes it DOES.

Believe it or not, there are many things in life which do not depend upon perspective, worldview, or any of a host of phrases designed to remove responsibility for being stupid. As I like to put it, 2+2=4, and I really don't care HOW you feel about it.

Laws are much the same way. When the vast bulk of the people and the legal community expect the law to mean X and one group says "we think it means Y" that group is wrong, not different, WRONG.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

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Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
As a matter of fact, yes it DOES.

Believe it or not, there are many things in life which do not depend upon perspective, worldview, or any of a host of phrases designed to remove responsibility for being stupid. As I like to put it, 2+2=4, and I really don't care HOW you feel about it.

Laws are much the same way. When the vast bulk of the people and the legal community expect the law to mean X and one group says "we think it means Y" that group is wrong, not different, WRONG.
So should the judicial decisions be based on direct democracy or polls? Are judges not put into place by politicians that are elected after all? What changes in our system do you suggest to make sure we have decisions you agree with? Or is it the legal elite that gets to make those decisions?
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
As a matter of fact, yes it DOES.

Believe it or not, there are many things in life which do not depend upon perspective, worldview, or any of a host of phrases designed to remove responsibility for being stupid. As I like to put it, 2+2=4, and I really don't care HOW you feel about it.

Laws are much the same way. When the vast bulk of the people and the legal community expect the law to mean X and one group says "we think it means Y" that group is wrong, not different, WRONG.
That isn't the way it works Eric. What you are describing is mob rule.
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We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
As a matter of fact, yes it DOES.

Believe it or not, there are many things in life which do not depend upon perspective, worldview, or any of a host of phrases designed to remove responsibility for being stupid. As I like to put it, 2+2=4, and I really don't care HOW you feel about it.

Laws are much the same way. When the vast bulk of the people and the legal community expect the law to mean X and one group says "we think it means Y" that group is wrong, not different, WRONG.
But what if 1 doesn't equal 1?
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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ThorHammer ThorHammer is offline
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

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Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
But what if 1 doesn't equal 1?
Keep your communist philosophy to yourself.
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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

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Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
Keep your communist philosophy to yourself.


But I'm not a Communist, nor have I ever been a Communist.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008
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ThorHammer ThorHammer is offline
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Re: Unconstitutoinal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post


But I'm not a Communist, nor have I ever been a Communist.
A likely response, Ivan.





i am just messing with you.
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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.
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