He's free to have his views, and I'm free to have mine. If the pro-gun-control view can be free from criticism, then my position should be as well.

__________________
In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

True, but it should be done with civility, and not calling someone a traitor because they fractionally disagree with your views.

Why? He's advocating legal action against me if i exercise my rights in a way he does not like - not because i have caused him harm, but because he is scared i MIGHT.

I'm supposed to be civil about that?

Would you have expected a black man in the 60's to be civil towards a white man who wanted him thrown in jail for sitting at the wrong color lunch counter?

__________________
In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

I have some experience with shooting. In Cub Scouts (WEBELOS camp) we did rifle safety, and I shot with my dad a few times. A good friend of mine has two semiauto pistols (9mm and .40 cal) that I've shot as well. He's taught me a lot about safety. We may actually go do the concealed carry class together. Probably never carry, but it could be kind of fun.

I think that the biggest thing is to keep in mind the stuff I learned as a kid, especially that the gun is always loaded (even if I've visualized the chamber myself to see that it's empty).

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

I do understand where you are coming from, Eric. I know that my views aren't popular with many, and I appreciate that you are so passionate about the issue.

I think that the biggest thing for me is that, before buying a gun, people should have some training so that they don't accidentally hurt themselves or others. Some basic safety stuff, creating some sort of license. Advocacy organizations like the NRA could provide these, and maybe have a scholarship fund for those who want to own but can't afford the licensing course.

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

And these are reasonable. You are supposed to be licensed and recieve training before operating a car, why not a gun, at least on the legal side of things. As long as the licensing/training costs/requirements aren't set prohibitivly high, so as to create an artificial ban, I see no problem in this. Now, a register on if you actually own a gun and their serial numbers I am against.

Then go, and have fun and quit worrying. Most of the safety violations I have seen are from people so worried about being safe, they aren't; and people who just have no clue what they are doing.

Why? Whatever gain could possibly come of this would never offset the costs. Do you have to obtain a license to practice your religion? Pass a state-approved course before you express your political views? Get permission from the local police department before you are eligible to require a search warrant?

__________________
In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

And I don't disagree.

Side note: when I was purchasing, the guy at the shop (nice local shop) actually grabbed a different one from their stock because it had a cool serial number. Couldn't tell you the serial number on my Remington 870, but I know this one by heart already.


I'll be a lot less worried once I've fired the first round. I haven't shot a .45 before. Hopefully the recoil won't be too terrible.

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

A .45ACP is manageable especially in a larger framed person. Just remember, shooting is similar to a golf or baseball bat swing in the sense that you want to be consistent with all the mechanics of shooting. Stance, grip, sight picture, trigger pull, follow up.

As a cheap piece of advice that I witnessed happen the hard way, make sure your thumb and anything else for that matter wont be in the way of the slide when it comes back from battery after being fired. Having your thumb even grazed by the bottom side of the slide coming back at high speed will gash you.

Do you know you can look in your local newspaper and buy a handgun off a private individual with NO PAPERWORK AND NO BACKGROUND CHECK?

GASP.

OMG, it has been this way for hundreds of years.

Ever read about how convicts get their firearms? There have been studies done you know.

Here is a really good piece, for anyone interested........

Independent researchers reported 2.5 million defensive uses of firearms in the U.S. by civilians each year (1.9 million with handguns), usually without firing; defense with a firearm is safer and more effective than any other method, including non-resistance; and armed citizens contribute significantly to crime control, strengthening the criminal justice system both through armed resistance and multiple deterrent effects, benefiting all citizens including those who do not own firearms.

Orlando, Florida reduced their rape rate by 88 percent within six months by training 2,500 women in basic firearm safety and widely publicizing that program.

The California State Sheriffs Association opposes firearms registration, licensing, and prohibition, and instead supports the right of law-abiding citizens to purchase handguns, rifles, and shotguns of their choice, including affordable handguns and traditional semiautomatic firearms mislabeled as "assault weapons", for self-defense or sport. They also support the same type of real criminal justice system improvements that firearms owners support.

Numerous polls of police chiefs and rank and file officers by organizations that actually poll their members, such as the National Association of Chiefs of Police, consistently show that law enforcement is overwhelmingly in agreement (by 90 percent) with this position. No police organization supporting gun control will poll their members because they already know they will lose.*

If California were to suffer the same murder rate that Washington, D.C. suffered after banning handguns and "assault weapons" in 1976, California (4,096 murders) would have had 18,382 additional murders in 1993. Felon surveys determined that less than 15 percent of felons prefer or actually use affordable, less powerful handguns mislabeled as "Saturday Night Specials", and that 86 percent of predatory felons who carried handguns would substitute more powerful sawed-off shotguns or rifles if handguns were unavailable, substantially increasing the death rate.

Ninety-three percent of criminals obtain their firearms illegally, without registration or license, and nothing prevents other criminals from doing the same. Even worse, the U.S. Supreme Court held in Haynes v. U.S. (1968), that a felon could not be convicted for failure to register firearms, because that would violate his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

Firearms Education Institute - Daily Breeze Perspective Column

I understand your points. The difference, of course, is that none of the activities you list are potentially harmful or fatal to others.

I also understand that the Constitution guarantees a right to bear arms. I also understand that the 2nd Amendment was written in the context of muzzle-loading flintlock black-powder weaponry. I think that context is important when trying to decipher the meaning of what was written, and not just for that Amendment.

I think that, on this issue, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I understand your argument fully, and I think you have a pretty good idea where I'm coming from. I don't see either of us changing our positions any time in the foreseeable future.

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

That's what I'm hoping. I'm not a small guy, and the .45 fit in my hand a lot better than the 9mm and .40s I looked at.

OW!

I imagine that hurt quite a bit.

It's kind of like shooting my buddy's .30-.06, having it slip off your shoulder and bashing your nose with the scope. That sucker kicks like a mule.

Fortunately, his nose wasn't broken or anything.

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

The M&Ps are very "soft shooting" guns. The design helps reduce felt recoil.

As SomeMarine wisely noted, make certain your thumbs are clear of the slide.

Your grip should look something like this:



Note that both thumbs are on the same side.

The crossed thumbs grip shown above works for many folks. I prefer the thumbs-forward technique:



It's all a matter of preference.

Finally, it's always a good idea to review the Four Rules. I've been shooting handguns quite actively for a long time, and I still review them before each range session:

Rule 2 is very important with a handgun, because their short length makes is much easier for the muzzle to wander when the user gets distracted.

Go have fun shooting it - the M&P is a very good design, and I think you'll like it.

Matt

__________________
De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

I would think that you would know the difference between driving a car and owing a gun. Driving a car is a privilege granted to people by the government. Owning a gun is a right given to the people by the Constitution.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

__________________