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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2008
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mpd8488 mpd8488 is offline
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
From what I've read, based on the questions the Justices were asking, etc., it looks like the DC law gets overturned, and they may rule there is a right to keep a gun in the house for protection, but I don't think they are anxious to blow away concealed weapons bans, open carry bans, gun free zones, etc. for an unrestricted right to bear arms. So in DC it may be OK to have a handgun in the house for protection, but walk outside with it, and you're in deep shit, is OK.


I don't think they'll give college students the right to keep weapons in their dorm rooms, for example.

I don't think they'll have a problem with the laws that ban guns from courthouses, for another example.
I would not be surprised if they gave a very narrow ruling similar to what you mentioned in your post, but what I think many people fail to realize is that the oral arguments are not a good indication of how the justices will rule. I don't know how many people followed the "Bong Hits For Jesus" Case, but the justices essentially made light of the whole situation and asked ridiculous questions about what speech should be stopped. Many thought that they made the school look foolish, but the ended up voting against the student.

They only listen to arguments for an hour (a little longer in this case) and then have months to think about it before writing an opinion.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

The Bong Hits case was incredibly stupid, and I don't blame the SC for making light of it. Everyone I know certainly did, too.

This gun thing, though, will possibly have big-time ramifications.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
Eric, I think the biggest reason we talk past each other is that you are more into rights, while I am more into responsibilities. I see conditions put upon gun ownership (registrations, licenses, etc.) as responsible stewardship of the public safety and trust. While individuals have the right to bear arms, the government has the responsibility to ensure the safety of others and to make sure the gun owner is responsible, as well.

I don't understand why that isn't reasonable.
It isn't reasonable because government has been given no authority to apply such restrictions. THAT is what I have an issue with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post

It doesn't, and I don't believe I have ever argued otherwise. Depending on what the SC rules, I might bring a broadsword in to work. (Maybe my customers will know I mean business! )
You could anyway. AZ allows open carry of weapons.
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Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
Might be mixing a few rights, here. Trespassing for ANY purpose is trespassing.
I agree.
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Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
As you constantly ignore any semblance of responsibility.
How do you figure?
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Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
You see guns as personal protection. I see them as an overt threat.
I see them as merely a tool. You have not defined how the mere presence of one is an overt threat. Do you believe an armed police officer is an overt threat by his simple presence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
And I will continue not to do so, unless the law changes.
So until the law changes you do not believe you have to explain how the mere ownership of a weapon is an overt threat, but yet you expect us to believe you think it is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
I think the law is really vague (otherwise nobody would be arguing about it, would they?) and merits a closer look.
No it really ISN'T all that vague. What has happened it has been obfuscated by people with an agenda and a desire to ignore the plain language of the law knowing they could never get it repealed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
But you really don't think that a person walking down Main Street with an M-16, belts of bullet clips, a .50 cal, four Glocks and a few shotguns would be worrisome? Should he be arrested?
Why? He'd be free to do that in a LOT of states - yours included.

In truth, anyone who COULD walk around with all that would be quite deadly even unarmed. You just described well over 100lbs of weapons and ammunition.
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Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
If not, there's not much else to say.
Nope - i guess there isnt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
If so, then you do acknowledge that there are and need to be perameters that shape and define the conditions of gun laws, to insure the safety of society.
If you want there to be parameters, then work to AMEND the Constitution - not ignore it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
P.S. How about guns on airplanes? Do you consider that prohibition as an infringment of your rights, or a reasonable, responsible condition?
If the owner of the plane chooses to forbid it, that is his right. If the government prohibits me from it, then my rights have been violated.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
The Bong Hits case was incredibly stupid, and I don't blame the SC for making light of it. Everyone I know certainly did, too.

This gun thing, though, will possibly have big-time ramifications.
Like when murder rates go down in DC because law-abiding citizens will legally be able to defend themselves?

Yeah, that's gonna be awesome.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

Round and round we go.

Ah well. Have fun.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheresRegan2008 View Post
Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

"You can take my weapon from my cold, dead hands!"
I submit that many of the gun owners who enjoy reciting that, love to leave off that first part.

Typically, they are not in a militia, not very regulated, and possibly not well, either.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
I submit that many of the gun owners who enjoy reciting that, love to leave off that first part.

Typically, they are not in a militia, not very regulated, and possibly not well, either.
and, according to the text, one does not need to be part of a well regulated militia in order to bear arms.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

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Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
and, according to the text, one does not need to be part of a well regulated militia in order to bear arms.
The very heart of the debate is that one can read it that you DO.

That little comma, and the terrible grammar have been quite problemmatic.

Be interesting to see if the SC tackles it, or wimps out.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
I submit that many of the gun owners who enjoy reciting that, love to leave off that first part.

Typically, they are not in a militia, not very regulated, and possibly not well, either.
Where did it say that being in a well regulated militia was a requirement to owning a gun? It just says that it would be a good idea for a state to have one, and also says that states may not infringe on the individual right to bear arms.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
The very heart of the debate is that one can read it that you DO.

That little comma, and the terrible grammar have been quite problemmatic.

Be interesting to see if the SC tackles it, or wimps out.

Well, it seems, at least to Justice Kennedy (a vital swing vote), that the little comma means nothing:


"In my view, (the Second Amendment is) saying there is a general right to bear arms, quite without reference to a militia," Kennedy said.

McClatchy Washington Bureau | 03/18/2008 | Supreme Court justices critical of D.C. gun ban
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

Quote:
Originally Posted by CYDdharta View Post
Well, it seems, at least to Justice Kennedy (a vital swing vote), that the little comma means nothing:


"In my view, (the Second Amendment is) saying there is a general right to bear arms, quite without reference to a militia," Kennedy said.
Well, there you go. They're the legal experts, so whatever they say goes, any disagreement I may have notwithstanding.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
Well, there you go. They're the legal experts, so whatever they say goes, any disagreement I may have notwithstanding.
What disagreement do you have? Why is a ban on handguns nessecary and why is Justice Kennedy wrong?
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paleo-Con View Post
What disagreement do you have?
That the comma is separating two independent clauses, as opposed to just further description of the militia's establishment.

It has been read both ways, wth force and fervor.

Quote:
Why is a ban on handguns nessecary
No, I am not going to laboriously rehash well-known arguments about that. You know good and well what the arguments are. If you truly are confused as to why many people argue against handguns, look it up in wiki or whatever, and go from there.

Quote:
and why is Justice Kennedy wrong?
Again, because I read the Amendment differently, obviously.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

As we see, this is exactly why there is debate, there are multiple ways to read the Amendment. Each side thinks its interpretation is the correct one, but the mere existence of debate proves that there is not a single definitive reading of the text.

This is why this has the potential to be such a landmark case as it could effectively wipe out one side of the debate. I personally hope it does so that we can finally put this to rest and stop having it come up every time the left and right go at each other.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
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Re: DC Gun ban goes to SC Tuesday

My personal belief is all this debate is caused by a simple spelling mistake. The summer when the Constitution was written and debated was terribly hot, and air conditioning was unavailable. Therefore the Founders included the amendment to ensure wearing of short sleeved shirts was allowed, "the right to bare arms shall not be infringed"
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