Just as gun control doesn't stop any street-smart individual from owning guns illegally, immigration control won't stop any street-smart individual from entering the US illegally, i. e. both gun control and immigration laws are easily circumvented.

The fundamental factor that determines whether people will own guns or emigrate to the US is not the legality of either.

It's whether people have an incentive to do so.

If a person lives in a crime-ridden part of town, he/she will find a way to get a gun, legally or otherwise, to defend him/herself. And if a person wants to rob, kill, or rape, he/she will find a way to get a gun, legally or otherwise, to help accomplish the task.

Similarly, if a person lives in Mexico and is poor, he/she will find a way, legally or otherwise, to come into the US and find work. And if an American employer wants work done at minimal cost, he/she will find a way, legally or otherwise, to invite an illegal to do it for him.



Therefore, like gun control, immigration laws are useless.

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Life only becomes meaningful at its extremes

-- S

Just because people will find a way to enter this country illegally doesn't mean we should leave the border wide open.I guarantee if we crack down on the employers who hire illegals,adequately secure the border and deny tax payer funded services to illegals then the vast majority of illegals will pack their shit up and go back home and a lot of other people would not be enticed to come here illegally.Remove the incentives and most people will have no reason to come here illegal or stay here illegally.

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"There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”—Theodore Roosevelt

Why would they go home, when "crack downs" can be easily circumvented, and there's money to be made?

People have been wanting to crack down on illegals for decades, just as they've wanted to crack down on the illicit drug trade.

The effect has been the same in both cases: more cracks.

The incentive is more money. How are you going to remove that?

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Life only becomes meaningful at its extremes

-- S

States are starting to listen to the people and have been little by little cracking down in illegal immigration

Unlike the drug trade the federal has refused to do its job regarding border security and illegal immigration.So states like Arizona,Oklahoma and some cities are just doing the jobs the feds refuse to do.If dishonest employers refuse to hire illegals then illegals can not get jobs.



The we remove the incentive by fining the hell out of employers who hire illegals,toss them in prison, and we treat them no different than drug dealers and other criminals with assets seizer/forfeiture laws.

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"There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”—Theodore Roosevelt

All I could think when I read the thread title is:

"Illegal immigrants don't kill people - people kill people."

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

So now employers will have bigger laws to circumvent. I'm sure they'll think twice before working with Mexican Labor Contractors.

Thank God. With all the $ wasted on the drug war, we don't more wasted on the illegal immigrant war.

True, and if robbers and rapists refuse to buy guns, then homicide rates would drop.

Great, now all we have to do is get all the employers who are hiring illegals to come forward and admit their mistake so we can fine the hell out of them.

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Life only becomes meaningful at its extremes

-- S

I do agree with what you said about gun restrictions but illegal immigration can be curbed severely. Take away the incentive by cracking down hard on employers who hire illegals, stop social services for illegals and secure the border. To quench the demand for cheap labor in stead of locking up non-violent offenders, have them work off their debt doing the work illegals once did or choose to serve their time behind bars, it is up to them.

You also mention the drug war which is not even in the same ballpark since one drug use typically is a victimless crime while illegal immigration is not and two the US has been very soft on illegal immigration even to the point of allowing social services, and drivers licenses to people who are not even legal residents.

Historical evidence shows that Illegal Immigration is a problem that we can most definitley solve:

Christian Science Moniter | How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico

President Eisenhower did all this with one-tenth the border gaurd that we have today.

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Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito

The more the state 'plans' the more difficult planning becomes for the individual. - F.A. Hayek

-The Ludwig von Mises Institute
-Ron Paul 2008
-The Constitution of the United States of America
-I am the NRA

I agree with Paleo-Con on the issue. Illegal immigration is a problem that can be solved.

On a side note, what does a picture of Mitt Romney have anything to do with this thread?

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Serious Quotes:


Funny But True Quotes
Those who argue for complete secularism are funny. They see what government does and then argue that we don't need it to start with prayer.

Lack of Immigration laws/control cost the US taxpayers millions every year.

Lack of gun law/control saves lives.

I see nothing in common between the two.

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Anyone who thinks freedom comes cheap, please put the blindfold on and stand against the wall.

Many times I believe Americans will have to take back the country and start a new government.

I agree with you.

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America’s political correctness is a disease that will bring down our once fine nation.

I think you would save more lives if everyone had a gun. If everyone had a gun the criminals would stop the dumb shit and would realize there is a strong chance they will get shot for trying to rip somone off. I could care less if some criminal gets shot for trying to break into a house or rob someone. Besides the issue is wrong and moot at best and if the left wing was smart they would figure out that banning bullets would be the better thing to do. It would be easier for me to make a gun then it would be to make a bullet. Give me a nail a piece of pipe and a rubberband and I can make something that can fire a bullet.

I think gun violence really only happens on a major scale in poor urban areas.

I live in a place where everyone has a gun but no one gets shot.

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America’s political correctness is a disease that will bring down our once fine nation.

See, I was actually thinking, "You can have my maid when you pry her from my cold dead hands."

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During the journey we commonly forget its goal. Almost every profession is chosen as a means to an end but continued as an end in itself. Forgetting our objectives is the most frequent act of stupidity.
-Friedrich Nietzsche, The Wanderer and his Shadow

All good socialists have villas in Southern France. That's not the point.
-Eurosocialist

There are immigration laws, and there are gun control laws - If Immigration laws were enforced as seriously as gun laws, there would be little to no illegal immigration. The problem with your comparison, Soletica, is the gapeing double standard in how the laws are enforced. Compare an illegal alien who is given medical treatment, a drivers license, and other goverment handouts, while only has to fear deportation to someone who, for instance, steals a firearm and gets 20 years mandatory - hence the double standard.

If you really want to compare gun control to immigration control, try to look at it this way: It is legal to immigrate to this country, just like it is legal to own a firearm, however in both cases there are rules you have to follow. Immigrating here illegally would be like buying a gun on the black market, and by your comparison, to support illegal immigration would be to support illegal gun trafficking.

I'm assuming it's because Romney made Illegal Immigration his number one issue in the last days of his campaign.

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Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito

The more the state 'plans' the more difficult planning becomes for the individual. - F.A. Hayek

-The Ludwig von Mises Institute
-Ron Paul 2008
-The Constitution of the United States of America
-I am the NRA