According to this you do.

Glenwood Springs Post Independent - Valley News

• Demonstrates competency with a handgun by submitting a certificate from handgun training class obtained within the past 10 years.


It would be a bad thing for Colorado to being giving out CCW's to people with no proven ability they won't shoot themselves.
But it wouldn't suprise me if a state was dong it.

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I want to change the world but they won't give me the source code.

Why is it a myth? It has certainly happened.
Ah, so because YOU have nightmares, others have to give up their rights? You really should consider professional help pram. The things that give you nightmares simply do not happen - at least not yet in any of the 40 or so states which have relaxed their concealed carry laws.
Because THAT just works so well.

The police have no duty to protect anyone.

Basically what you're advocating is a continuance of the failed status quo. You do know what it is called when you continue to do the same thing but expect different results, don't you?

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Silence is golden...Duct tape is silver.

Yes, but the training classes (they're about $130) often don't require any range time. You don't have to demonstrate that you can handle a gun, much less shoot it accurately.

When I go take my class, I'll at least be required to shoot a decent score before they'll clear me. Of course, it's a class provided by a local indoor range instead of a national chain.

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Really? Do you have a single example of such?

No? Didnt think so. . You not only do not have a clue what you're talking about, but you expect your ignorance to be simply swallowed by the rest of us as unquestioned fact.

Back on ignore you go pram.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Silence is golden...Duct tape is silver.

I'm sorry but that wouldn't work at all-either school shootings or general shootings. Its oxymoronic to think that the way to solve gun crime is to arm more people really, all you do is make more people worried about being shot, and thus they'll eb ready to shoot first at the first sign of danger...thus more people get shot. If a kid runs into class a bit quick and the teacher thinks he's carrying a gun he isn't going to ask questions is he-he's going to shoot the kid. NAd of course, its highly unlikley that the kid will.

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The way to solve gun crimes is to allow people to arm themselves and apprehend gun criminals.

The situation you just described would be highly unlikley to happen, responsible gun owners don't shoot people for running fast, they shoot them for shooting people.

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Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito

The more the state 'plans' the more difficult planning becomes for the individual. - F.A. Hayek

-The Ludwig von Mises Institute
-Ron Paul 2008
-The Constitution of the United States of America
-I am the NRA

If that were the case, perhaps you could tell us why it hasnt happened yet in the 40+ states which allow concealed carry?

Guns do not make people do things they are not inclined to do. You're assuming others would react the way you're afraid you might.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Silence is golden...Duct tape is silver.

Conceal Carry = not seeing the weapon. People walk the streets of life now armed and many do not even know it. What has happened is criminals are armed 24/7 and citizens have taken personal responbility to protect themselves because of it. Many times people make a personal choice to not carry a firearm.

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I want to change the world but they won't give me the source code.

It's not oxymoronic, it counterintuitive. Look 'em up. But if you stop to think about it, how do most gun crimes that are solved get solved? The arrival of more guns, in the hands of people whose intent is to stop further shooting, i.e. police. So which is preferable - waiting for minutes (5? 150?) for police to arrive while shooting potentially continues unopposed, or having a chance that somebody already on the scene can stop things? And that doesn't necessarily even mean dottering Mrs. Hinklebotham having to play Rambo and spray the room with lead - One of the various school shootings of the last couple decades ended when a student, unarmed but knowledgable about guns, heard a tell-tale 'bang bang bang click click click' and simply tackled the idiot.

Further, a lot of the more spectacular shootings are carried out partly because of the spectacle. If you know you can pop most of the football team plus a few other snots and bullies before 'going out in a blaze of glory,' it might sound like a decent trade-off to a suicidal loser. If you don't know for certain that you'll get off more than a handful of shots before getting knee-capped by whomever nearby happens to be armed, "Rampaging teen stopped by 90-yr old spinster" doesn't have the same macho/romantic appeal.

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Today's forecast: Government corruption.

Tomorrow's forecast: 100% chance of more 'politics as usual'

Maybe it's finally time to vote Libertarian

Do you have any evidence to back that up?

It seems that the vast majority of gun crimes end on their own, not as a result of police activity.

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He did say solved, not stopped.

Few, if any, are stopped by police. The ones which have been stopped are virtually always stopped by a private citizen with a gun deciding he doesn't want to be a victim that day, or the criminal deciding to save the taxpayers the expense of a trial.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Silence is golden...Duct tape is silver.

Yes, I saw that he used "solved." I assumed that he wasn't saying that the guns carried by police were what were needed to perform the post-hoc investigations of the crime.

Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that "virtually all" of active gun crimes that are stopped mid-commission by a private citizen with a gun?

Suicides don't count - the crime is not being stopped; it has already occurred.

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They aren't needed, but that doesn't change the fact that they have them.
No actual evidence except the observation that police virtually never stop a crime in progress. If a crime involving a gun is stopped mid-commission, you can bet real money that it wasn't stopped by the cops.

There are some 15 or so studies on the defensive usage of firearms which have already been linked in previous threads. A nice collection of them is available here: GunCite: Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
(yes, i am aware that is a pro-gun site. It is also a place where I happen to know that table is posted).

The numbers range from ~750K per year to 3.5 million times per year. Even the DoJ study is somewhere north of 2 million times per year.

While I am aware that many anti-gun organizations consider suicide to be influenced by the presence of firearms, and I am also aware that it is a crime in most (if not all) states, I was not referring to that anyway. I meant criminals who kill themselves after committing the crime (a la Cho).

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Silence is golden...Duct tape is silver.

They've got nipples, too. Do those help with the investigation?

But, even if your logic were correct, the assumption that a weapon was required to stop the crime is erroneous. Most people do not carry weapons with them.

A basic problem that I see with this - Given that there are approximately 6 million violent crimes in the world (303,823,842 people x 20 violent crimes per 1000 people), even 750,000 defensive usages seems quite high. I wasn't able to find a stat on how many CCW licenses there are in the US.

U.S. and World Population Clocks - POPClocks
Bureau of Justice Statistics Violent Crime Rate Trends

Actually, I was intending to talk about those who commit a crime and then commit suicide (or attempt) by shooting themselves. I'd say that this is not the cessation of a crime, but a post-crime activity.

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And criminals breathe air. Does this mean all who breathe air are criminals?

If the cops weren't there, the crime wouldn't be solved. That they are armed is an integral part of their job and their ability to project force.
You know of many crimes which are stopped in progress WITHOUT a weapon? Doesn't have to be used mind you - the mere presence and display can stop the crime.
If a crime is not reported, there's no way to know it occurred. Many people do not report crimes which were stopped simply because it isnt worth the effort.

Hell, I'm not going to call the cops and waste hours of my life just because some punk trying to jack my car had a change of heart when he saw the pistol in my hand. I think you'll find a LOT of people like that.

There is no statistic you can present which is going to convince me that I should give up the most effective tool for self defense. Even though I may never need one, if i DO need it, there isn't going to be anything which will be an adequate substitute, and the consequences of not having it would be more serious than I wish to deal with.
Ok - so we were referring to the same thing then.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Silence is golden...Duct tape is silver.